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The PROVERBIAL BOX: Celebrity, Fans, Marketing and Rock
Joined: Sep 2008
Chicago, IL
Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 19:55
The PROVERBIAL BOX: Celebrity, Fans, Marketing and Rock
This ongoing thread, spun off of discussions at the Proverbial Box forum (which in turn was spun off from the epic AI Forums thread regarding how DC was so outside the box), is a permanent home for armchair sociology regarding the fan/performer relationship, as well as the marketing of the David Cook brand.
We examine the basic assumptions regarding what a performer “owes” his fans, and why so many people have become so invested in the phenomenon that is DC. What is it about our media, our culture, our communication tools – and DC’s use of the communication tools – that makes people feel so personally connected? (And, at times, so personally demanding?) Is this a new scenario? Or has it been going on for decades, and just on display now in a more immediate way due to the existence of the “interwebs?” Do we demand more now than our fan predecessors did of the Beatles, Elvis, Sinatra?
What is the nature of our “relationship” with DC… what assumptions is it built on? (Again, viewed in a “meta” sort of a way – cos there are other threads for discussing his talent and personal attributes. We just take his appeal as a given.)
We consider all aspects of DC's ongoing communication with his fans, the way he is marketed (and markets himself), and related topics, including the brand status of DC in the world of rock music.
No professional opinions or credentials needed. Just your ideas and your gut feelings about why it is like it is, in the world of the developing rockstar, the obvested fan, and the crazy digital universe.....
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Comments (6097)
Just an obervation. I've noticed that others from Idol are having trouble getting much radio play and have had drops in sales also on their second albums, despite likely fitting into current pop. And yes, I mean those from the season after David's, but I'm not really trying to bring up others music. It's just an overall observation that maybe there is something bigger, like a problem with the way those from a certain show or certain record company are marketed, since we are seeing drops with most of them. Other than being on the same show, it is the record company that they have in common.
Something that seems to be On Topic, and touches on every word in the title; Celebrity, Fans, Marketing, Rock.
A nice piece of MARKETING has come to my attention: a CELEBRITY, Yeng Constantinos, will be singing with David in Manila - just as the winner of Season 7 IndoIdol will be doing a duet with him in Jakarta. IDK anything about Cebu....or what they will be singing - although my money is on RiTD both times . so I hope David has plenty of time to warm up - he said that song needs it! I also don't know these two artists - but maybe one of the choices for a duet could be more ROCK?
Any way, what do the FANS think of this Duet Spot in concerts?
>>@thedavidcook RT @Cornerstone_TMC: Congratulations @YengPLUGGEDin for being chosen to have a duet with David Cook in his concert here in Manila this Saturday
>>@YengPLUGGEDin : I'm really happy I will sing with david cook on saturday... yey!!! #grateful
And to continue the Marketing topic -
>>@MyMusicStorePH
@thedavidcook's single The Last Song I'll Write For You is now available on MyMusicStore http://bit.ly/OxcuXb Spread the word!
Because the 'word' is the song is not available on the iTunes Philippines with the rest of David's music. Anyone know?? But this outlet, MyMusicStore, has many downloads of David's songs for sale - check out their 'Also Bought' scroll!
Better Marketing?
CYE- Interesting about the contract. I'm kind of wondering about the part about owning the recordings before is why he didn't do much AH stuff. Maybe he only did it for certain songs like Straight Ahead.
Interesting also about the timing, and also keeping the website for 12 months. It's probably to continue to sell the album for as long as possible.
And with the involvement in the decision making of the label, I could see why someone would be happer being indie.
Not only a link GEL - I did a whole lawyerly analysis of it
https://www.davidcookofficial.com/us/blog/ai-recording-contract-summary
CYE, do you have a link to that sample contract?
Just a note, GEL - the reason why the label stuff came up again at this point is that for the first time ever we had an actual sample contract with the record label. Previously all we had to go on was journalists's summaries of points they thought was important, gleaned from court papers filed where minor Idol contestants were involved.
I just tweeted this link to minstrel on twitter, but I want to share it here, to show you the great atmosphere that David is going to be in in Nashville. Of course, he is way ahead of the game of these young artists, but, at present is unsigned, like they are.
http://musiccityunsigned.com/#/home
I am very enthusiastic about what lies ahead for him in this atmosphere. He will have the best of all worlds there - high profile connections but within a young and growing music scene where he can mix with his age cohort, maybe even have them cover his songs, he will work with a wide swath of artists and, I believe, will thrive in ways we can't guess at from out vantage point.
I think that when he does choose to interact, publicize what he's up to etc etc, we will be very pleasantly surprised. Just give him some time.
He has the USO gig in Hawaii soon, then the ball game, then Asia. Sounds to me like he's working. Don't know what else you would call it. And that's just where we can see it.
Annie , I agree with you about seeing tension during the TLM period, and I separate that from the sadness we know he felt at the loss of his brother. When I go back and look at some of the pics and videos around the time of the release at the Paramount you can see it in his face. At first I thought it had to do with Neal's decision to leave the band, but I think it was more than that. I don't think we may ever know about all that was going on behind the scenes. He did give us a glimpse at NOH when he mentioned his being uncomfortable with some of the writers he had been paired with.
I want to thank all of you for your intelligent and insightful responses. I don't think I have ever posted this much before as I am not that adept at expressing in words what I am thinking or feeling.
I think it's eminently reasonable to expect that Cook will keep writing and performing music, because that is his gift, his craft, his art, his DNA, his goad, and his destiny. (Hyperbole, OTOH, that is MY craft. Ha.)
The industry he works in has changed so much since the day he auditioned for That Show, and his personal world has changed, also. So I think it is also reasonable to expect that his tactics, strategies, ambitions and expectationswill morph and change. He's now living in a climate where "big label" is no longer seen as "huge plus," if it ever reasonably was. (For a few people it IS still a huge plus, though fewer and fewer artists can make money in that model, as sales of recorded music decline. I think part of the reason the minuses were not discussed in more depth here was because there were enough "the label is Satan" folks out here, in varying degrees, including those espousing the idea that "the label is pulling Dave's strings." As long as he was tied to the label, my view was -- to just attribute to him his characteristic intelligence, nimbleness and integrity in whatever context he has to operate, to accept that he tells the truth though not always everything he knows, and beyond that to apply a big dose of humility because there is, and always has been, a lot we do not and cannot know.)
I do think it's unreasonable to expect constant stimulation of the type that the 08-09 period provided, though. I think it's reasonable to instead see him in the singer-songwriter context, which is where he has been working hard to position himself and seems to prefer to operate, vs the "major celebrity popstar context." The latter does require a level of messing around with media that he seems not to prefer, though, as I have said, he is perfectly capable of operating in that world when duty calls. He needs to write good songs; I expect that's Job 1, you know? Stuff still does rise through public culture, viral popularity, etc, but it has to be something special -- like RITD, like the Gotye song, like that damned Carly Rae Jepson song with those stringlike riffs slashing through the bubblegum chorus and cementing themselves into your consciousness, lol. One lightning-in-a-bottle song like that and we'd be having a different conversation here. Let us see what occurs.
As for the future level of fan interaction -- a lot of that is going to depend on where he is trying to go and how he plans to try to get there, and since we don't have the info? Just gotta wait. Meanwhile there are a lot of excellent artists who are in active promo cycles now, to enjoy, and a lot of excellent video/audio from prior Cook performances that I haven't even scratched the surface of, yet....
Carry on.
greeneyedlady, you're right. Sorry PC, that wasn't my intention. My goal was to point out the opportunities in David's latest course of action. I also sensed a difference in the TLM cycle from the DCTR era... some kind of tension behind the scenes. I'm not getting that vibe anymore. Then again, I've never felt that RCA knew what to do with David, so I see their parting as a new opportunity for him.
GEL I really don't know what to make of the "cone of silence" right now. If he wants to be marketed as the "enigmatic " rock singer that may work for him, otherwise I don't really think it helps.
GEL, I honestly think core fans don't have a reasonable conception of what casual fans think a "cone of silence" looks like.
Casual fans know the following things:
Cook put out a new single. (They have either heard or assumed that he's writing other new songs to release another album.)
Cook and the band are doing a series of shows and appearances in July. (They may or may not have heard that he is moving to Nashville.)
Consequently, Cook sounds busy.
If he's busy sorting out the move, he probably hasn't scheduled too many other writing sessions yet. So there isn't much "process" stuff to talk about. He's popping in to do some brief personal updates.
I do think that there are going to be many challenges with figuring out how to release the album (and I've never suggested otherwise), but I think most fans honestly don't want to know about the sausage-making. They'll just want to know what's coming and where they can buy it, with maybe a few pertinent updates when they are merited. A month after the single came out is a short enough period of time not to merit additional updates.
I don't think that people were debating whether it was appropriate to feel "optimism" or "pessimism" for Cook. They were discussing whether, as an artist, "some perceived changes in performance style" signal "a lack of enthusiasm for the act of performing." Reading evidence differently and talking about that is the point of a discussion board, IMO.
At the risk of being jumped on myself, I do think that y'all kind of piled on PC. She is certainly entitled to her thoughts, feelings and opinions as are we all. I find myself in the wait and see camp right now. Optimism is great, but the fact is that I don't know how it will play out yet. Now I see him happy which is great, but I would think that the loss of the support of a major record label would be a big blow to him. He always seemed so proud of being on a major label and getting a song written with his friends on the record as well. I also did not see a lot of articles being posted as to how bad record deals were until after David split from RCA. From what I read , they do sound onerous, yet many independents who have started out without one have jumped on board after some success on their own. I think that there has been a stigma attached to an artist"who is no longer with a label" in the past especially when it is a winner from AI. I think that putting out the single may have helped to take some of the sting out of that stigma, at least I hope so. Love that he is doing the Asian Tour, but wish he would have been able to go to more countries with the DCTR era. I think that would have helped firm up support for future albums. Though I figured there would be a drop off of support for the second album, I admit that I was stunned at just how much that drop off turned out to be. I don't know yet how much promo he will get for the new album since I don't know what SF might have up his sleeve, but in order to tour I would think he would have to have decent sales , open for a larger act , or do smaller venues. You all can correct me if I am wrong about that. I'm sure you will. I do think Dave believes that the long wait between DCTR and TLM hurt him so he has said he wants to get an album out sooner. That may depend on finances. I can't believe it has already been close to a year since TLM was released. I really don't know what to make of the "cone of silence" right now. If he wants to be marketed as the "enigmatic " rock singer that may work for him, otherwise I don't really think it helps. I look forward to this album probably more than any other because the 2 songs we have heard have been so good! He will always have my support and I'm not going anywhere; I just want to have realistic expectations right now. I am not just sure what those expectations should be? Sorry if I have rambled on.
opabinia:Definitely thanks to Minstrel-thanks for passing it along.
Actually, minstrel linked the Nashville article -- thanks.
opabinia:Great article about Nashville-so excited he chose to live and work there. Can't wait to see this stage of his career unfold.
Maybe David "knew" what was on his horizon when he wrote these lyrics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKsm3srCaZo . Taking charge, full steam ahead.
"slowing down," no. "rethinking," yes.
good article on why musicians and others are flocking to nashville... via twitter...
http://www.americanwaymag.com/nashville-joy-williams-jack-white
annie702 - From the moment he put his house on sale and I guessed he was headed for Nashville, I thought those exact things. I agree with you completely.
dogmother057 - and yes to what you said, too.
hi guys , i just want to say vote for david in q102 it's the last day.and thank you for all who make comment about my opinion of david's facebook page,and i just want to see a million like the page i don't know why accept like i said before i'm huge fan and i wish for david the best because he's the best for me.
guys don't forget to vote.
David's not slowing down-he's moving into another phase of his career and this is probably more on track of what he might have hoped for before Idol which we all know wasn't in his plans at all. Winning Idol-the good and the bad-got him to this moment and he's ready to go for it on his terms and that means Nashville-full speed ahead.
annie702 I agree 100%
safroniamay, he's home... at a new place. That new place happens to be a vibrant hub for music. My conclusion as to why he'd choose to relocate to Nashville would be to continue his career in music. Moving isn't easy. Sorry gals, I just don't see signs of slowing down on his part. He self-released a single, is touring in Asia, and has taken the initiative to relocate.
Great article, eilonwy; thanks for bringing it. OK Go has the distinct advantage of being filmmakers (IMO) almost as much as musicians, kwim? Not every band is going to have that skillset. But really the key point in that story -- where is the startup capital going to come from for unknown artists -- that is a haunting point that cycles back to the fan funding or fan/patron model. Because corporations won't want to bankroll unknowns; there's no marketing bounce there. Bankrolling the up & coming has been the labels' job, but when that system falls apart, where does the $ come from? And then the article just cycles back to the point of: you sell access to yourself. For a big price that makes up for all the records you are not selling.
Fortunately D has more options since he is far from unknown, whatever his current status and goals.
I dunno whether "eat lunch with me at PF Chang's" is even the same kind of animal as "buy my heartfelt album," but I'm wagering a whole lot of artists are, in fact, going to start selling "eat lunch with me at PF Chang's."
OTOH? The private online concert streams (such as hosted by stageit) seem way, way sensible to me --very low overhead, quick cash, not much to the middleman (platform host) apparently, and it's still about sharing your music. Dave could do extremely well with that model, IMO, and gain money for funding other projects.
I am interested in all the new paradigms for selling music, or not selling music but commoditizing the inherent talent or whatever it's all going to be called/done/morphed/ digitized etc etc. The irony is not lost on me though, that what in my era was considered "selling out" has long been reinterpreted into doing what has to be done to survive. Not that even the '60s were "pure" - every rock artist had to sell out on some level to get the record companies to sign them. I think we all just liked to pretend it wasn't happening.
But I sure do want to see musicians survive and to be paid what their rare talents certainly deserve. If they can have more control over their careers, even better.
My bottom line as a fan is that I want David to thrive as a musician and songwriter, to perform often enough that I get to see him, if lucky, once a year (but, you know, I rarely see anyone once a year. Most bands don't tour everywhere every year. So that is total ridiculousness to ever expect, come to think of it, lol. ) If he chooses vehicles that involve offering levels of access and I can afford it, so be it. If he does live concert streams from some small club in Nashville, I'll pay for it. If he offers free downloads, I'll take them; I'll buy what he wants to sell and enjoy it all.
Whatever he wants to do as long as he keeps doing music is fine with me. I was rewatching a couple of vids from NOH today. At one point, when he was introducing FHTZ but talking about TLS first, he said that it did NOT mean he was going to stop playing. He said, with his usual self-deprecating humor, that it's all he knows how to do. Somewhere else in that patter, he joked about "what else can I say to kill my career?" It was clear that night there and rewatching the vids, that he was happy to be there and to be finally writing with compatible people and that he had no intention of stopping.
minstrel made the point that we Idol era fans have a certain set of "trained" expectations for being wooed well past the time when it is necessary or relevant. Such a savvy point! And it is absolutely true that newly arriving fans will approach him just as we approach all the other artists we follow - without a particularly deep set of expectations except that the artist make music. It is not disengagement to become realistic about how one relates to David.
In the early days of this site and our collective excitement, the intensity of it all often stunned me and I would say to myself that I hope the day would come a year or so out when I would finally relate to David exactly as I did all the other artists I enjoy - digging their music, but, essentially, having them hovering in the background until a tour comes up and I luck out to score tix.
Haha - well, that day hasn't come yet. But it might simply because everything must change, and if he continues to keep a low profile except when he is releasing new music, what other choice will we have? It's not disengagement as I see it, but realistic and normalizing.
Of course, you may all make me eat these words when I am still here this time next year, tapping away on my keyboard at 12:38 AM. Yet again.
I'm hoping for more touring, maybe opening for someone. I did hear that Bon Jovi is going out on tour next spring, I'm hoping for that, he did so well at Tiger Jam. I think it would be a terrific opportunity.
Bottom line is Dave's future as a touring rock artist is questionable at this point, but he seems okay with it! So for David - big exhale. He's home. He's safe. He's happy. Gone is the constant pressure he's endured from the moment he first auditioned for Idol until he split with RCA a few months ago. I think finally the morning is truly not so loud. And, who knows? Maybe more good stuff is yet to come! I am so grateful for all that he has already given us.
PC, he has already said that they're working on new material and that he's not retiring. He's said that the new stuff is taking a new direction and he's working with people he knows and that he loves some of the new material like FHTZ. I like to take him at face value when he states his plans. These are exciting times... and he looks so calm and happy. We just need to give him time to settle in to his new surroundings. It'll be worth the wait
PartlyCloudy, if anything has changed, it is that he has realized that selling millions and making music that he wants to make, is not necessarily mutually compatible. And he has clearly made the choice that he would rather make music that satisfies him.
If that makes you feel less engaged - well, that's your personal preference. Personally I am happy with the path he has chosen - I have never cared about how well or not an artist sells, or tries to sell themselves, just about the music they put out. .
minstrel quoth: Though the whole "survive by sucking up because you can't sell records any more" -- that idea remains worrisome to me, kwim, and I think that is part of why the discussion is coming up here, not just the post-idol hangover syndrome. It's such a drumbeat out there in the industry right now: fan funding, selling access, high-value experiences for uber-fans, etc. I do not know if that means it is really "the future of making a living in music" or if it's really just a whole bunch of people reading the same bunch of pundits and then taking on the opinion of the pundits. kwim? (I work in journalism; i know how that goes, heh.)
Interestingly, the non-label funding technique that the Wall Street Journal chose to profile was not fan-based or access-based... it's corporate sponsorship, which has worked well for OK Go.
So there is at least one viable alternative to fan-contact-intensive marketing -- which I think is good, as there exist heavy music-buyers like me who don't necessarily want to pay for special access to all the bands whose work we buy, but who would like to be able to buy their music occasionally. I'm not saying Cook should or will look for corporate sponsors... just that there seem to be multiple models of how to prosper without a major label, so he's not necessarily locked into one paradigm, no matter how pundit-loved.
The New Rock Star Paradigm (saved as .pdf, since WSJ is flaky about archiving)
I think the Asia thing is genius; i only wish there were a few more gigs on that itinerary. I read a Rolling Stone article recently (maybe it was the big summer issue) profiling how numerous artists have really done great overseas, after less-than-huge receptions in the U.S. I hope D really fills up those venues and comes away feeling super-pumped and super-appreciated, not to mention in the black.
It's a big world.
As for the other topic du jour -- the Idol thing is a weird thing because you do have to woo people, and then they get used to being wooed, long past the point where you need their voting, kwim? Fans coming on board from now going forward will not have that particular history and their expectations are bound to be different. And the ones who remain from the Idol era will figure out how to continue their support in an appropriate way -- a way that is mutually satisfying to the fans and the artist -- in the current era. I hope.
Though the whole "survive by sucking up because you can't sell records any more" -- that idea remains worrisome to me, kwim, and I think that is part of why the discussion is coming up here, not just the post-idol hangover syndrome. It's such a drumbeat out there in the industry right now: fan funding, selling access, high-value experiences for uber-fans, etc. I do not know if that means it is really "the future of making a living in music" or if it's really just a whole bunch of people reading the same bunch of pundits and then taking on the opinion of the pundits. kwim? (I work in journalism; i know how that goes, heh.)
It's all really murky, to me. I still am boggled by the notion that recorded music isn't worth paying for. Something is very skewed in the world, when that notion takes hold, to me. (Why is a latte worth paying for but a song that some person put their honest emotion into, not worth paying for? Why is sharing your thoughts/emotions/insights regarding being human, not worth paying for, but a donut is still worth paying for? It makes no sense, to me. Sigh.)
It is interesting how perceptions vary.
His last album was released a year ago and his last radio single was released to radio 9 months ago. Yet he has had several one-off concerts this year even though he is not promoting anything that is currently being pushed to radio.
He just had a late-season Idol performance where he performed new music. Instead of performing something from his latest album which is less than a year old, he self published a new song, got it to itunes and Amazon prior to the performance so it would be out there for sale, and he and his management even got it onto some music services that lisence music to commercial use.
He is about to tour in Asia even though his last album is a year old!
My perception is that he did not necessarily choose to lose the security of a major label contract, since he indicated he would interested if someone else wants to 'jump on board,' but that he is very happy with where he is right now and is moving forward with his music career sans a major label at the present time.
My perception is that he learned from the last album that he does not want to be out of the public eye for an extended period of time while writing new material. So he has continuted, and will continue, to look for one-off of short-term concert opportunities so he can continue to perform and so his name will stay out there as a currently touring artist.
PC whatever it is, it has made me step back and be less engaged. *Less* engaged. Not, unengaged. As I said, I'm still interested in his music and his performances, if and when they happen.
In my circles, we call that "whatever it is" time.
It's simply not possible to carry boundless enthusiasm and the sense of unlimited possibility throughout one's adulthood, even if one hasn't had the personal and professional challenges that Cook has had. It's simply not possible to carry boundless enthusiasm and the sense of unlimited possibility as a fan over years of watching a career.
Honestly, I think stepping back and not feeling the need to constantly request and stream and cheerlead and retweet and a bunch of Skinner box feedback loop things is healthy and better for the performer-fan relationship in the long run. (Note that I'm saying "constantly," not "even once, if so moved.") All he's ever asked is that fans buy the music and come to the shows, and donate to his causes if they are so inclined. That's really what all artists ask of their fans.
Now, how that music comes out and where those shows will be are mostly up to him. But the answers will still be "somehow" and "sometime," not "no way" and "never," because he does still want to do this in some capacity, even if it's not with the giddiness of a 25-year-old anymore.
Without a single solitary fact, I suppose you have to decide from your own perceptions.
Yes, I was talking about my overall perceptions over the past year -- especially this past album cycle. Sure, one doesn't go around looking unhappy or distant or like there's a wall around them all the time. I was at Irving Plaza, for one, and you couldn't be in that room and be down or disconnected.
I don't get the vibe that you seem to be perceiving - I still see the guy in the Top Hat bouncing up and down in place on the stage at Irving Plaza...but hey - that's me.
I'm remarking on the vibe *I got* during this last album cycle and beyond, in comparison to the one before.
I'm also not making any decisions beyond the original one to be a fan. David doesn't owe me any more proof that it's worth my while, I kinda signed on of my own free will. I guess we all decide what level of participation we can deal with - whatever makes you comfortable - KWIM?
I have to admit, I do feed off of the enthusiasm and joy of the artist -- not just the product they put out. Maybe I'm picking up on the emotions he put into the last album and everything that came after? But, whatever it is, it has made me step back and be less engaged. *Less* engaged. Not, unengaged. As I said, I'm still interested in his music and his performances, if and when they happen.
I'm not gonna try to convince you of anything - I don't have any more facts than you do - just a differing interpretation, and the perceptions that you are focusing on are your own. IMO. Of Course.
I'm not looking to be convinced of anything by anyone here. I'm just sharing my point of view, which is obviously my own opinion. I don't represent anyone. I don't have a following. LOL.
and vegas, duh, vegas. big committed performance. which i would've said below if this thing would let me edit.....
I think he will rise to the top when time and the business permits. Too much talent to do anything else.
Sorry for the ugly link. Thought this was an interesting read.
http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/entertainment/2012/06/15/s-boy-bands/?i...
I've seen a lot of commitment and a lot of joy in a bunch of vids from this spring -- clovis, orlando, DC. AI was a little more intense (vs 'whoopee') but there is no way I would categorize any of it as phoning anything in. As for the fan thing -- the last time he was baldly given an opportunity from media to address his supporters, extemporaneously, he not only pimped his new tune but also bluntly said: "I love you guys." No one is making him do that. That just came out.
To always want stuff to be like it was, in life, gets in the way of being able to see good things in a new season. IMO. I loved how it was; that was an exciting time. But I am also excited about how it is and how it will be. This stuff takes time. I sure didn't know everything about where I was going when I was 29. Let us see how mr 10ft tall and mr introvert shake hands with each other and come out ready to take on the world.
Partly Cloudy:
I think he does still like performing music, and wants to be a musician and songwriter, but I do think given what has happened the past few months, with parting with RCA and going independant again, it's kind of obvious he probably isn't going to be a major pop star. I think this might have been a bigger struggle than anyone knows, and maybe this is what you're seeing. I do think there were compromises made in the last two albums in an attempt to make it fit into pop, or at least what RCA thought would make it more pop. From things he said more recently I think he's glad to have more creative control, and I think this is more important to him than becoming a pop star.
Well for me I think that David was very happy and really into his performances in Clovis and especially Las Vegas when I saw him last. And from what I understand the RFH show was wonderful. As far as Idol goes he got a standing ovation and I thought it was reminiscent of The World I Know.
I look at this whole thing as a journey. I do believe he still wants to perform. He has said so. I believe he finds joy in performing but I don't believe he could sustain the same kind of feeling he had during Idol, that is impossible IMO.
He was grateful for the fan gifting effort and he tweeted about it.
And he is now without a label and maybe things will look different. The huge promo will be gone. He will have to find his way I think.
jayelgee1, ITA; especially your last two paragraphs. Well stated.
Incipit and Luckyduck -- I loved your posts and wholeheartedly agree. I can't watch those IP videos and see a guy barely emoting. I grew up in a time when fans had no real interaction with artists. I've come to enjoy social media, and I love DCO, but I don't need it in order to maintain interest. If Dave continues to write and release music, and tour as he is able, that's enough for me, ultimately.
Glad I happened to look and see this thread active again. All of this has been on my mind, too. It did not seem to me at the NOH that he did not want a performing career anymore. And he as verbalized that he is working hard to write new music so he can produce a new album "for the fans" by the end of this year.
But as you all have said, he must be going through some personal and professional reorganization that he does not wish to share before a new plan gels. My speculation is that his new professional life in Nashville will involve a re-emergence in some way, that he will be able to decide what vehicles he will use going forward to produce his music. If he did not want a life in music, he absolutely would not be in Nashville. After my having spent only 1 week there, I could not avoid coming away totally imbued with the incredible creative energy there and all the possibilities for those who want to make it in today's widening country, roots and pop industries. I believe he will be able to be multi-faceted in that environment.
If he were leaving music, he'd go back to Missouri, kwim?
But I do also believe strongly that if he does want to continue being a performing musician, that he will need to develop an entrepreneurial identity that accepts that a certain amount of fan contact will be necessary. He could do it via any number of vehicles from those that require no pressing-of-the-flesh to the usual meet and greets we have been privileged to experience.
We don't know, of course, if he is able to self-finance his next album or, if not, if he has family or other investors, thereby not requiring fan investment.
I have seen many variations on what artists do when requesting fan investment. One artist I follow, Matthew Mayfield, for one recent album, had many levels of investment ranging from a truly small amount, for which the fan got a t-shirt, to moderate levels that could get you your fave lyrics handwritten by Matthew, even a lyric custom written, all the way up to mega investment that got you in the studio during a recording session. GRO was mentioned by one of you. They did a similar range of investment/perks.
Even if the pull of introversion calls him, that "10 foot tall" guy is in there, too, and exerts a pull. He will have to figure out what to do with that guy.
In terms of selfish interest, I must say that I have been a bit sad and winsome as I listen to his music in my car, feeling that if he were to stop performing live, I would feel quite bereft.
It cannot be easy to know that "out there" in the world are thousands of people wondering what one's next life decision will be. It's hard enough to explain ones choices to family and friends. So part of the distance can be self-preservation in that to speak too soon before his next steps are pinned down would be foolhardy.
And part of it could be totally appropriate absorption in his personal life that he wants to tend and nurture. There were powerful emotions in his voice as he described FHTZ at NOH. Right now, he could be putting all of his emotional energy into that so that when he hits the road, his personal life will be secure. (Qualification here: I am not seeking to discuss his personal life, only his approach to nurturing it.)
And when he feels that security, he may be ready to compartmentalize and give more of himself to his fandom again.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. But as I stated before, it's his life. He gives to us what is comfortable. Not unlike what we do with our friends. He is not family, and is NEVER going to share at that level. I am still a fan, it is the music that draws me. Everything else is a bonus.I listen to his music because it resonates with me. I do not feel the need to critique what he decides to share with us. It is what it is, and I accept that.
"I'm not sure he wants to be a performer anymore."
Really? Oh well - your call, PartlyCloudy. I would miss you. Without a single solitary fact, I suppose you have to decide from your own perceptions...if you feel you must decide right now?
I don't get the vibe that you seem to be perceiving - I still see the guy in the Top Hat bouncing up and down in place on the stage at Irving Plaza...but hey - that's me. I'm also not making any decisions beyond the original one to be a fan. David doesn't owe me any more proof that it's worth my while, I kinda signed on of my own free will. I guess we all decide what level of participation we can deal with - whatever makes you comfortable - KWIM?
I'm not gonna try to convince you of anything - I don't have any more facts than you do - just a differing interpretation, and the perceptions that you are focusing on are your own. IMO. Of Course.
True, that was some time ago, but the videos of his concerts since then have shown him to be obviously enjoying being on that stage. Maybe he's wanting more quiet nights at present, but it's hard to imagine he doesn't still crave being loud from time to time.
I think he was fulfilling whatever contract he had at the time. But he has seemed to me to be very joyless in his performance, including his last one on Idol. No smiles, barely emoting. I just don't get anything from him that he wants to be there anymore.
ETA: Whatever happened to that irrepressible guy who whooped it up after he performed Eleanor Rigby on the Idol stage. The guy who twirled around with that huge smile on his face and hopped about and slapped his leg. It was so incredibly wonderful and contagious. I was so happy for him. Now, I feel like, I, as a fan am annoying him, to be honest.
There's no way to even guess what D has in mind after all those July appearances. As far as his wish to keep performing, though, I sometimes think about the pep talk he gave to the PS22 kids, telling them that if you're not having fun, music (I guess he means the business) isn't worth it. True, that was some time ago, but the videos of his concerts since then have shown him to be obviously enjoying being on that stage. Maybe he's wanting more quiet nights at present, but it's hard to imagine he doesn't still crave being loud from time to time.
Eh. He's been through some stuff, you know? A lot of it, in a pretty compressed amount of time. He's had some fabulous experiences and some crappy experiences and now he has to figure out where to go with all he has learned. Not to mention dealing with relocation issues, and you know and I know how time consuming that stuff can be.
If he'd been uniformly 'happy warrior' under the circumstances, he'd have to be a different person -- and he'd have been writing different music. Since I have a whole lot of respect for what he has written, out of the places where he goes in his head, even the dark places? (Not to mention a really large amount of respect for his drive to do some good in the world?) I'm patient. Fans who can't manage "patient" are probably already outta here. I just hang onto the fact that he looked pretty at peace in that long Shirley Halperin interview; it wasn't giddy, but that was a good vibe, IMO. These July gigs will be pumped-up gigs. Wait and see.
I agree with CYE (*waves*, miss my concert buddy
) at 16:52 "As for me, I'm happy with whatever he chooses. Sure, I liked the vlogs and the blogs ad the Pork Beans and the Q & A's. But in my opinion, in the final instance it's up to the artist to decide what price they are willing to pay for what level of success they want to achieve. "
At the end of the day, it's his life and he will share what he is comfortable with. I am a fan for the duration, as I am with other artists I admire. I have no expectations of the level of engagement from him, I will appreciate whatever he feels is safe to share.
PC, I gathered a different impression of his social media use pre-Idol. He struck me more as a bursts-and-spurts kinda guy as far as communication goes and that hasn't changed. I remember seeing periods of silence in his old myspace blogs... MONTHS without post! Who knows what he does behind the scenes, but he's not telling all.
I don't know. I just remember his absolute eagerness and joy when the Idol judges said you're ready to make an album; you're already there! He was just bursting with joy and enthusiasm. I have not seen that in such a long, long, long time, I am beginning to think he has lost it. I want to hear more from him, but I do not want to push someone -- as a fan -- who doesn't want to be there. He is beginning to signal to me that he doesn't want it and I am more than willing to bow to that and back off and stop requesting and voting and talking and tweeting and all those things. I do not want to be a step ahead of someone who didn't even plan to make that step. So, I have backed off. I'm not voting. I'm not talking as much. I've decided to step back and stop being a cheerleader because I'm not sure he wants to be a performer anymore.
Minstrel , being fairly curious , I did watch the video about Fanado. I gotta say it struck me as a bit creepy. I understand that they are trying to provide fans with autographs and a connection to the artist when the fan can't be there in person, but I just don't think it is the same experience as actually meeting the artist in person. This may be great for artists who want to keep some distance from their fans. They can still connect and make some money in the process, but it just seems so sterile somehow. I am wondering if this is really where the music biz is headed in the future.
Green-eyed Lady
Not only does he not act like he wants a "relationship" with fans, but I don't know if he is really acting like he is concerned about a music career.
I don't feel that way at all. If he felt this way, why would he have released TLS and had interviews. He told us as much as he could then. He said in one interview that he has waited 10 years to have this big of a fanbase. I think that personally and professionally he is going through a transition, and will give us more information when it is available. He gave us plenty of information around the time the single came out.
I think it's promising that he is still talking about writing new music, and still touring. Even the fact that the website is still being updated is promising, maybe it's his management that is doing it, and maybe it will be relaunched when the new album comes out.