I feel compelled to bring up Max Martin. Wow, just wow if Martin ends up being the producer selected for the new album. Max Martin (nee Martin Karl Sanberg) is a Swedish genius... he pretty much discovered Chad Wolf while he was interning for Diane Warren, brought him to Sweden and assembled Carolina Liar. There would be no Carolina Liar without Max Martin. My two worlds collide!!! Most of y'all know how much I flove CL. Oh, he also produced Kelly's "Since You've Been Gone" and "Behind These Hazel Eyes."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Martin

Don't be afraid by his pop hits: "he has written and co-written five number one hits, including "So What" by Pink, "Hot N Cold" and "I Kissed a Girl" by Katy Perry, Kelly Clarkson's "My Life Would Suck Without You", and "3" by Britney Spears."
Martin has done plenty of rock and Carolina Liar is a great example of commercial alternative rock that's just great music.

I am starting to see that David places a value on a breakout CHR hit. This is how I read it. I could be wrong.

I agree with Scott that there's definitely a role for keyboards in an Imogen Heap-style song. Not really sure about any other instruments, though. It's a weird style of music to me. A little too "quiet" for my tastes. But it would be great for the folks who really just want to hear David's voice and nothing else.

--
Rolling Out Across the Desert Word Hero #293
"If I was in a band competing with Andy, I'd quit." -- Neal Tiemann

"Hide and Seek" by Imogen Heap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4OLQB7ON9w
--

His laugh intoxicating

"Just for Now" is awesome - really cool arrangement. I'd love to see David play around with his voice like that. Funnily enough, the playlist Pweller7 just listed has Hallelujah as the next song - in a completely a capella version. Just a bit of echo as the only effect. I think that's even more daring than the "Just for Now" arrangement. I also think that if David did something like that, a song with just his voice and no gimmicks, instruments or loops, I'd die of happiness.

I mostly lurk to read the comments of the musically apt, but for the purposes of easy discussion as the new record evolves, recapped the specific music news from last night's info rich interview on EW

As of early Feb:
Confirmed working sessions with: David Hodges, Brian Howes, Raine and Chantal, Claude Kelly, Tommy Hendrikson, Sam Hollander

Talked about possible hook ups with: Max Martin, Ryan Tedder

Specific songs in development mentioned:
* David Hodges: at least two songs, working titles: "You and I", "Tonight Is On Our Side"

* Neal and Andy: very kinda moody, synth, very different "With Me Empty"

* Brian Howes: at least two songs, one unnamed & demo still in process, and uptempo rock song "Boomerang"

Insights to working process:
* Tendency to work on music, melody, riff, chord progressions first, then lyrics

* Inability to do anything but sing all out on a demo

Concepts for DCSA vary widely and include:
* uptempo rock
* more piano
* less wall of sound guitar, more use of guitar as one of several instruments
* moody, synth-based song
* lofty ideas and playing around with notions he hasn't tried yet, like Imogen Heap style "all vocal" number
* collaborate with pop producers/songwriters
* collaborate with rock producers/songwriters
* collaborate with partners from DCTR
* collaborate with new partners
* collaborate with band

Other:
* looks good in royal blue
* is happy

--
kaydeecee

And sourwoodmtn, would you be able to post a link to that AWIT sonnet conversation?

It's still copyrighted and not excerpted in full anywhere that I could find, but if you go to Amazon and "search inside" for "sonnet" you'll get the two pages on which the text appears.

Welcome again, new voices in this thread, and a very good morning to all -- especially since we have such a fabulous interview to listen to! Pweller, thanks for bringing the link over -- you saved me the effort of doing it -- and it absolutely belongs in this thread, so please don't hesitate to bring over any other goodies you find or comment on them as well. It's always nice to find out that there are more than the same 5 people hanging out in this thread.

In any case, regarding the bluesy feel of BBS -- yes. This. I've been wishing for time to do a transcription to piano of that song for ages, and am actually holding out for a piano/vocal version of the sheet music, for just that reason -- I think the change of instrumentation would result in a really cool jazz piano kind of feel. Don't know when I'd ever have the time for it, though, which is why -- piano sheet music, please?

Also, regarding fitting the lyrics to the music, we actually had a discussion about that towards the end of August (I went back and checked, which fortunately didn't take that much time -- but, um, webnerds? The search is broken. Just so you know.) I'm going to just go ahead and quote myself to save time but this was my perspective on it:

Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 20:18
I remember once in high school trying to explain to a classmate in English class why sometimes it's easier writing poetry that has a set meter rather than free verse... and my reasoning was that the meter provides a structure that limits your infinite choices in what to say and what words to use with which to say it. I would wager that fitting the lyrics to the music amounts to the same thing, where the melody and the meter present a puzzle to the writer. He's said in the past that "the lyrics have to be perfect" -- that's one way to do it. How he manages to do that without the disconnect to the music itself, and without it sounding strained, as you've said -- well, that's currently The Big Songwriting Question, isn't it? Wish I knew.

This kind of spawned a discussion about songwriting as a puzzle, which led to this:

Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 21:17
And finally, norman and CYE -- regarding music first, lyrics last, and the puzzle of songwriting... not really sure what to say other than muse on it a little more.... There's an art to fashioning a crossword puzzle, too.... there's structure, and symmetry, and a lot of that goes into any art form that uses words, I imagine. Songwriting is a little more artsy than crosswords, probably because of, well, the whole music angle. And I'm thinking that in some respect the puzzle is always there, regardless of which end you start writing from, simply because even when it's lyrics first, you're committing yourself to a particular meter and rhyme scheme when you write. It's just that it's a lot more set in stone if it's music first, you know? There's a lot more you have to change if you decide it's not working when you finally get to the lyrics. Or you just use that as a challenge and commit yourself to it anyway. That DC does it in that way and, as you said, CYE, has such strong lyrical ability, I think amplifies how impressed I am with said ability. But again -- this is what comes naturally to him, and that's just how he operates. Who knows, maybe the whole right-brained southpaw thing is part of it as well. He might find it just as awkward and hard to wrap his mind around if forced to reverse his process to what other writers do and start with the lyrics.

I knew that David loved Imogen Heap, but of everything he said in the interview I think that he wanted to do an all vocal song (on that level of cool) was the biggest surprise. Lofty idea, for sure! I would love to hear what he comes up with. I love how his, Andy's and Kyle's voices sound together, and with the right song it could really be something special.

Writing within parameters. This was interesting to me too, since I thought that highly creative people would prefer to create with NO boundaries. I don't consider myself creative at all, so I NEED to have parameters when ever having to write anything (words, not music, lol). But I can see how he might have several song themes/ideas, but can't formalize into lyrics without the music. It makes sense to me, the non creative person. I just love hearing him share whats in his big brain. And damn he looked cute with that tat peeking out.
--

Love is gathering...

Okay, post-hoing. I just posted this in marco's thread about what we want in David's next album and I realized that some of it may be fodder for conversation on this thread as well. (Or not. LOL.) Anyway, here it is:
 
1. I'm with you on more upbeat songs. KOTN is a great song and terrifically suited to David's voice and I want more upbeat songs like KOTN and Declaration. I do adore Heroes, but I think DCTR had too much of the "anthemic" songs on it. (It worked well in the context of the album given how they sequenced the songs, but in the concert, I thought it would have helped to have a bit more variation from the "anthemic" vibe.) So I guess I'm saying more upbeat but not necessarily anthemic.

2. I like the bluesy vibe to Bar-ba-sol and again his voice sounds great on it. I hope he does explores that direction a bit and see what he can come up with. BBS is probably one of the most musically interesting songs on DCTR, so I'd like to be able to marvel at something like that on DCTR2 again.

3. I love the crunchy guitars we heard on tour so more of that would be great, but yeah, without any cloudy production that smooths out the edges of the instruments and David's voice. One of my fave MWK songs is TIB and one of my favorite covers is DIYAT and I loved the crunchiness of the guitars in those songs.

4. Less uplifting lyrics. Yup. I said it. David himself has said that he does not do happy lyrics very well and I agree. He needs to get back to that moody, introspective David we've come to know and love. And it doesn't have to be about a girl either. Just something from the heart and not so Hallmark (see, e.g., lyrics to One Second to Change Your Life).

5. A song or two with really pulled back, laid back, more subtle vocals. David can do this very well within many songs that he's done, but there's a tendency for him to then explode/build up to a wail (which is awesome!), but it'd be nice for him to try straying from that sorta kinda formula for a bit and see what colors he can bring to a song by just doing understated, non-belty vocals for the entire song. I sometimes get the feeling that he knows his sweet spot is in the belt/wail register, but he is such an awesome interpreter that it doesn't have to be like that for every song.

6. Anything at all with the mood/intensity/darkness of Every Day Is Exactly the Same. That was a new Cook that I heard, and man, I am addicted. Can't believe how many new cards this guy keeps pulling out of his back pocket.

7. Riff-based songs like Mr. S. Looooove that song. But again, it was one of those songs that got overproduced on the album with the instruments not being as distinct /got smoothed out. But wow, what a musically interesting song. Loved that song.

Aubreylin, yes.. Keep her at it! She'll thank you for it later.

And folks, hope it's okay to say the same thing over here that I just posted on the PB thread, but it's really more applicable over here. Would like to hear what y'all think about the all-vocal issue:

"Okay folks, that interview was exciting. And I don't mean just cause of the repeated showings of the hearthrob tattoo... : ] It's all the goodies! The titles, yes, but the all-vocal song wish and the piano v. wall of sound! It may be too much to hope for, though, because when I listened to Imogen Heap's record, to me, that's not what I had in mind for D. I don't see a need to process his voice with instruments added, too. No, I was thinking a cappela. I guess it's not what he had in mind. Sniff. His acknowledgment of our importance to him was very, very sweet...Sigh."

Aubreylin, if your daughter at 9 can make distinctions musically like that, that's really something. I'd bet she'd do well if she took those tests that were posted earlier. Does she play an instrument or show any other interest in being involved?

When I was 9, I knew I liked rock & roll and that's about as far as my discernment went! I still have a very hard time hearing separate instruments unless someone points it out. A voice, especially a VOICE, however, I can hear.

QTT and Redana - my ear has often heard David's voice sound like a clarinet (QTT, as you said, a reed instrument). He can execute beautiful "turnarounds" ( can't pinpoint the song right off the bat) that are so warm and mellow that they remind me of when I played clarinet in junior high.

Although, brass instruments can be very warm as well, and bright and exhilarating. I recently was in New Orleans and heard a lot of trombone,so Redana, I can understand your ear for that comparison.

Andy and David blend very well vocally. They have had lots of time to perfect that. And Neal and Andy provide very good backup together,too.

It's funny, because my comparison would be exactly opposite - Andy as the reed instrument, the oboe, the one that can cut through all the other noise because it's so distinctly different, and David as the brass instrument, maybe a trombone, the rich, full-bodied voice that's able to change colour completely, and go from soft and gentle to gritty and raw in one phrase. And also, I see Andy's voice as 'lighter' - more nimble, or quickfooted if that makes sense, a bit like quicksilver, whereas David's has more 'gravitas' and resonance and works well with glorynotes and slower melodylines. (That's not meant as a critique against either singer, because I like them both - just a question of different voices having different styles that suit them.)

Full disclosure: I used to play the trombone, but surely that's not why I compare David's voice to that particular instrument... *g*

Those tests were fun! I got just below 'exceptional' on all of them - I'm guessing a childhood and youth spent singing in choirs and playing instruments like trombone and violin and tuba had a lot to do with how well my ear is tuned to things like pitch and rhytm. You basically can't play the violin even passingly well unless your pitch is good, and you need a pretty firm sense of rhytm to play the tuba, as that often grounds the rhytm-section in an orchestra.

Ha Ha, I took the tests and did ok, but really, I thought I would do better. I'm slightly below ave in pitch perception and slightly above ave in rhythm. They were hard!

I do remember the Master Class lady and loved re-reading her evaluation of DC. Yep, that paragraph you cited lovethemusic is spot on. His great talent is his ability to communicate the message and emotion of the song. Oy.
--

Love is gathering...

LOL, I took the tests. I should not be a musician. And I am not a musician. At least now there's hard evidence of my lack of aptitude! I actually did ok... not quite as good on the pitch but still within the "normal" range on all tests. This really explains why songs that have similar backing tracks tend to sound the same to me: Kelly's Already Gone, Beyonce's Halo, and Jordin's Battlefield are great examples of this (relating to rhythm, where I got 76% correct - I recognize the slight differences in these songs but they really do sound alike to me). Pitch problems I think are directly related to some hearing loss I've had in recent years (partly due to loud music & ear buds, and probably age). My high range is shot. The tests were fun. I've always said "I may not be able to produce good music with either my voice or an instrument, but I recognize it when I hear it." Now I'm questioning that ability lol! Not really though. I think those tests measure some really subtle differences.

Speaking of ear buds (and headsets), perhaps I should take the test with a pair, instead of using my computer's crappy speakers.

likethis - I have always wondered what David knows about the blues and early rock n roll. There is no hint of either genre coloring any of his music that I can tell. That doesn't mean he doesn't know about them; he just doesn't gravitate to them, perhaps, or want to allude to them at all.

NTC, thanks for the musical test ones. I liked the musical-visual one the best, it seemed most comprehensive. I actually scored around the very good range on those tests which is odd because I have absolutely no musical schooling or training.

Likethis, I didn't get the impression David was just getting in to the Talking Heads. Seems like an odd choice if he wasn't already a fan of their music. Just because he didn't know about the DVD? Anyhow, it doesn't matter if he was or wasn't already knowledgeable about the music. It actually surprises me he is so well versed in 70s and 80s artists.

Follia, darn it, I wanna take those tests. (I'm a real nerd, you see -- I actually like taking tests and even worked for a test-preparation company for a while, though not as a teacher.)

I just wanted to welcome all the new voices to this thread. I always *knew* there were some fantastic musical discussions going on in other threads that I couldn't keep up with. Thanks for bringing them here, and please, feel free to stay and hang out as long as you wish.

ETA: Ooh, thanks for that one, norman! Warning about 3yo's duly noted; I'll wait until he's out of the house.

Jasmine:
Following some links from your posted links I found this:

http://www.giamusic.com/products/P-musicaptitudeprofile.cfm

Now that's one group of tests I would have failed with flying colors.