It occurs to me that maybe the only places where we can find the kind of in-depth and technical questions about the composing process will be in the various special print and e-zines for the guitar world. I just binged it in a couple of differenct ways, and there are "out there" many of these "places."

The popular press is just that - popular. The average entertainment reader is looking to see if there is someone worth seeing and may not be all that interested in the details. I don't know if David has yet to be interviewed by any of the rock guitarist magazines ( none have shown up here yet).

Maybe that won't happen until Cherry Lane releases his tabs/chords/sheets to the press for publication. Usually those mags are obsessive about these technical matters so that other bands can cover the music and then they often do in-depth interviews.

So, I think that we have to realize that when one of these many local e-zines goes out to a show, or they interview David over the phone or whatever, they are not looking for the nuts and bolts. They want general readership who will be happy enough w the article to come back the next time.

ETA: For example, I just found this e-zine and here is a link to the kind of interview we all would wish that David gives one of these days: http://www.americansongwriter.com/2009/11/chase-heard/

ETA II : If you click on that link on the Artist Directory, you will see a very cool feature : I scrolled down until I found someone I recognized - Dave's fave Erin McCarly. Click on her, and a whole article will open in which you will get a lot of nitty-gritty info about her and her music and background. So, this is the type of place where in-depth can be found.

Happy Friday all! Min - glad you had a good time at your show. Can't wait to hear the details.

Cimorene - I think you're on to something with the economics of print media today. Since many papers are downsizing, I imagine entertainment (films, theater, and music) could now be covered by one person who may not be an expert in music or even have adequate time to keep up with the current offerings. The Peoria review looks like someone who didn't do any research, but at least they didn't come in with preconceived ideas about the band.
With regard to your musical thread, I love to lurk there, but my musical theory education ended at age 12 after 5 years of piano lessons. I simply am not qualified to add much to the discussion on such a technical level. I am in such admiration of the talents of all of you who are so qualified.

Eilonwy, this is a good question. From the reviewers standpoint, I can't say, but I have noticed the same phenomenon in discussions here and at the PB. For me, and I think others, we have simply come to expect great music. We know that David has a fantastic voice and that the band is tight and that he has made a lot of changes to the songs since the day DCTR first appeared. The repertoire is pretty standard by now, with the exception of the new song Make Believe and the cover Shattered Dreams, which I think has only been done a couple of times. At first we were all "ooo, new cover," "ooo a capella Lie," and so on. But now, what can we say except he sang beautifully and the band was tight and rockin,' and NFT is a rock god, and so on? What is different from show to show is the banter and the audience interaction and the general vibe, so that is what gets the attention. Now for reviewers, it could be the same thing or it could be the total opposite. If the reviewer is up on Daveworld, then he/she knows what we know and so they may comment, but it's hard to find soemthing new and creative to say. On the other hand, if the reviewer is a Dave novice, then he/she may be interested in seeing what makes him tick and what makes his shows special. So they compare his show to other rock shows they have seen, and again it's the differences that stand out. jmo

Glad you had a good time, min!

May we apply some of our group brilliance to the Peoria review today? It's positive and reasonably accurate, but it does something I've noticed in reviews throughout the tour, which is to spend much more verbiage on Cook's relationship with the audience than on talking about the music. This isn't something Cook actively encourages, as he told this same reporter "this show is about the music" in so many words when she interviewed him. I also don't think the solution's in his doing less audience interaction, as (a) he's always funny about not taking the screaming seriously and (b) it helps pace the show well and is more fun than what I've seen at shows where the lead performer is awkward or distant. So I think he's doing the professional thing and is getting handled in a way he actively doesn't deserve.

Why do you think reviewers beg off from talking music?

--
How to Write an Off-Site Fan Review or Promotion that Drips Street Cred

minstrel! As you say, whatever mode he's in, it's a David show and you're going, which makes you our rep, and a lucky one, so: Leave it all there for all of us! And have the best time.

Looking forward to your story.

(ETA ps. JLG, I just saw your post and was about to say Wow, we're writing the same thing at the same time and then I see you wrote that a couple of hours ago?? I am confuzzled why I didn't see that. But I second your sentiments, as you see, same wavelength, just not duplicate timing!)

well, peeps, i am off to Peoria to experience GRO/Script/DCTA with a buddy who's flying up from Texas. Still kicking self in proverbial butt for selling my Hammond tix for Peoria, but I wanted to see GRO, whom I'm fond of, as musicians and people, and I forgot about that 'anniversary' biz until it was too late. Regret.... one of the most poignant and painful of emotions. Wah.

I am sure D and Co. are exhausted, as well they should be after leaving it ALL on that stage last night. So we might get DaveLite, though I hope we'll get a bit more than those deprived folks got in Friant, cos Valpo, one of my spare handful of shows, was only 10 songs, too, and I will be a little sad if that's all we get tonight. Nevertheless, D's not up to Bruce's stamina level at the moment, so .... whatever Dave comes out on that stage, DaveOnFire or DaveBurningLow, DaveExuberant or DaveSubdued or DaveSoTiredHe'sSlaphappy, I will be over there in row 4 sending my tribal affection/support vibes in the most enthusiastic possible manner. With my black non-mom jeans and a not-silly shirt. LOL.

Catch y'all on the flipside. Be good, now.

--
If I can be pure enough, if I can be selfless enough, and if I can be generous and loving and caring enough to abandon what I have and my own preconceived, silly notions of what I think I am ... then the music can really use me. -- John McLaughlin

jlg -- american express tweeted that they were sponsoring the event, and while I didn't follow them, someone I know does and forwarded the info. You could only connect to the TM site through the link AMEX posted. So now I follow American Express, who knows if they'll do something similar. In fact, I got an email from them that Alicia Keys is doing a charity event at Nokia theater in a couple of weeks. So this does appear to be the hot new format (vh1 storytellers, anyone?)

Mr. Cook certainly knows how to take the best of what he's experiencing and internalize it. Whether it was minstrel or annette or embeccamom who thought of it first, it was pretty obvious that seeing Bruce do this at his show made an impression. (And I'm sorry you missed in min, I wished I was there too. But twitter/chat/cellcast party with all my friends online was close to adequate, and of course memories of being there a year ago.) Interesting comment someone on the show thread posted, that he ended the show with a song from album #2 and one from before. clever transition...

And you're right min, there may be mistakes along the way. JBJ talked about burning out so much they had to separate for months before they could even begin to talk to each other again. Bruce had his fake band days (although I didn't mind them so much). And the list goes on. Will David have the wisdom to figure out how to avoid and/or recover from the potential mishaps? We can only trust in his commonsense and native intelligence, and perhaps hope that he continues to surround himself with the right influences. Like Mr. SVZ

here's an excerpt from the interview for the Tabernacle show
"His coolest celebrity meeting: becoming friends with Steven Van Zandt, part of the E Street Band. “It’s strange when he’s in the crowd [of my concerts,]” he said. “I’m exponentially more nervous. Afterwards, I’m picking his brain. ‘Was it okay? What did I do wrong?’ Very sweet guy. And honestly, it’s very awesome to have him as a friend.”

He has seen Bruce Springsteen’s three-hour marathon concerts and remains in awe. “He doesn’t even sing slow songs. In San Diego. our opener had to bail so we had to cover two hours. I got off stage, ‘Oh my god! I’m going to die!’ To see Bruce at age 60 chliling it for three hours on stage – it’s a humbling experience!” "

Love picturing him talking to SVZ, did I do good? uh yeah Dave, good energy tonight. But that pick-throwing, I don't know man, on the one hand it's cool to let the audience see you have fun on stage, on the other hand, very unprofessional, tough call....(FYI Pick war on stage at Nokia)

eilonwy
There is a subtle but important distinction between "I love him so of COURSE he will succeed" and "he has it in him to succeed at what's important to him, with an interesting and unusual perspective -- and that combination of spirit and intelligence is not irrelevant to why I love him."

so very well said.

--
Rachel
(JerseyGirl-2 or JerseyGirl2)
Jersey Girl Amigas Love Cookie

Minstrel - thought about you as soon as I heard the set list tonight. You deserve to gloat! Now, can you use those powers of prognostication and tell me whether my Dallas Stars will win the Stanley Cup this year?

minstrel quoth:
That's how I see it, and that is not meant to be "I love him so of COURSE he will succeed."

Gee, I haven't put anyone on the defensive much, have I?

There is a subtle but important distinction between "I love him so of COURSE he will succeed" and "he has it in him to succeed at what's important to him, with an interesting and unusual perspective -- and that combination of spirit and intelligence is not irrelevant to why I love him."

--
How to Write an Off-Site Fan Review or Promotion that Drips Street Cred

Exactly, exactly, Rachel. This is what veteran artists provide -- an invaluable perspective on the long-term arc.

Now, perspective works two ways, because all of us have been around long enough (even those of us who are not very old) to see artists' careers fizzle and die for one reason or another. There are a million reasons, some having to do with commercial missteps and some having to do with personal issues (addiction, inter-band conflict, you name it). There are a million ways to go off track.

To me, the "angst issue" boils down to the basic question of... do we believe Dave's got what it takes to keep it together, long term? Even if some commercial missteps happen? Do we believe in his talent, diligence, ambition, and commonsense enough to have faith that he can transcend commercial missteps when they do occur? (Because they have, and they will. If we're going to get freaked every time they do, it's going to be very tiring.)

Well, peeps, one of the benefit of having ridden the planet for more than a few spins around the solar system is that ... I know mistakes are not necessarily killers. I know setbacks are not necessarily fatal. I know you can come back stronger and better, even after crises that seem insurmountable.

Because I know these things, and I think I know at least some of what that guy is made of? I take the long view. I think HE also takes the long view. He's seen a lot of life in a short time, a lot of hard stuff. He's seen what's important and he's seen that you can survive hellish things and still be standing at the end. This kind of perspective and strength, you cannot buy at Guitar Center, kwim?

Which is not to say that he, and we, are never going to get anxious. There's an enterprise riding on his shoulders, but I think no one puts more pressure on him, than him. That's how he is, and if he weren't, he'd have some "normal" job by now instead of having hung in there long enough to get to this point. But I believe he's strong enough to get through the anxiety and produce excellent work in the midst of it, maybe partly even BECAUSE of it ... and to just keep truckin' if the sophomore album is not All That. (I expect it to be wonderful, I want it to be wonderful, certainly HE wants it to be wonderful. But even if it were not the Be All and End All of Albums? Not a deal-killer.)

His main job will always be to be authentic, to make the music HE wants to make, and not to make what he or the label thinks will sell, just as JBJ commented. (Sometimes the artistic vision and the commercial vision will be in harmony and sometimes they'll diverge. If they diverge to a jarring degree, he will eventually get himself free of his label and into a position where he can do what he needs to do. Lord knows there are plenty of examples of his arc, out there.)

That's how I see it, and that is not meant to be "I love him so of COURSE he will succeed." That is as pragmatic a view as I can muster, as an obvested tribe member. I've got nothing but faith that this guy is going to be making good music long after I've passed on to be singing with the heavenly choir. Whether it's in arenas or small venues or writing songs for other people or... whatever it is? I believe he is going to be more than fine.

--
If I can be pure enough, if I can be selfless enough, and if I can be generous and loving and caring enough to abandon what I have and my own preconceived, silly notions of what I think I am ... then the music can really use me. -- John McLaughlin

I am happy you were able to post peggymgr, it enriches the discussion when we all give our perspectives and tell our stories. I've been enjoying some of the rarer voices who've been visiting and posting here lately. I appreciate that you've all opened up and joined in. Thanks.

What's with this new emphasis on the captcha? For a while we were blissfully free of it. Have we been getting nuked with spam lately or something? Okay, try #3. (I can hardly figure out what they are, half the time either.)

#5
#6 This is nuts

mujerfeliz2009 quoth:
The rest of the [Atlanta] interview is here

There's a lot I think comes off well in this one. My gut says that it'd take only very minor tweaks in Cook's interview style to push him from "ordinary doofus with guitar, good intentions, and musical knowledge" to "really compelling musician" (remembering that non-fans don't yet see him that way, which is how we know they're non-fans), using the exact same central thoughts. The advantage to hitting "compelling musician" a few times is that the persona starts to roll forward under its own steam, so that subsequent interviews become ever more about music (which I think is critical to expanding fan base in any direction) and less about gossip (which is alienating to non-fans, no matter how much existing fans enjoy it).

I'm going to play around with that one as a thought experiment at whatever post-errand or errand-avoidance point tonight I feel like the intellectual and emotional batteries are fully charged. It'll be fun after a day of repeating: "The phone number you want is in the contacts database. No, it's the one in the contacts database. NOT the one in your email. I told you that if you called the number in your email, it would not work. This is why I've said FIVE TIMES that the number you want is updated in the contacts database. Funny how that works."

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How to Write an Off-Site Fan Review or Promotion that Drips Street Cred

Whoa. Now THAT was quite the interview. I'm wondering if it was held just after Cook flew all over the country in a matter of days and was jet-lagged, only because it's possibly the most honest and least guarded I remember him being in an interview in a long time, and that may have resulted from exhaustion.

Evidence this response to a fan question:
Do you find Tweeting a chore or do you enjoy it? – Jane again.

A bit of both. It’s something else that consumes my being at this point. I try to make it as fun as I can. Hopefully I never tweet anything overly mundane, maybe something intelligent.

I don't think we'll ever get anything more direct than this about the subject. Am impressed by his candor in that he can express any discomfort he has with the medium and/or the task without it being insulting. (Of course, perhaps I spoke too soon, and we will be in for yet another round of fan angst on "why is he tweeting if he doesn't like it?!" -- but I hope not.)

And I went back in this thread and checked the attribution, because this particular quote of eilonwy's stuck in my mind after reading this interview, too:
"Cook's knowledge of the modern rock world is clearly encyclopedic."

Word to that. Note the Bloodhound Gang reference. Dude knows his stuff.

cim - Well, I did have a fleeting vision this morning of going to buy a motorcycle jacket a la Cyndi. Then nixed it. But - we can carry rock attitude in our RL - and all I mean by that is just loving the music or whatever and finding a way to live our version of it - whatever It is.

Actually, the older I get the less shy and afraid I am. Nothing left to prove or lose. Did all my parents wanted. Raised my kids. Paid my mortgage. Vote each time. Can finally make my own rules. Where's my Amazon sword and shield? LOL - really loud!!!

As for the Letterman situation - that is a disappointment, if true. But, I like those alternatives - Colbert, the Daily Show. SNL again will ( and it will be will) be cool. Kimmel? Fallon? ( but no David on Dave will always be a burr in my side. Oh,well.)

Goethe's three questions are going up on my wall, Min. I learn a lot here; if that's not to be proud of, I don't know what is. I would love to see your non-squee AH review, if you feel comfortable posting it. I love that record and I love many of his songs from the Axium days (my review stops there at this moment).

JLG, I believe someone somewhere on DCO said that Letterman probably didn't have David on because he'd appeared too often on Leno; some kind of policy they have? May I just add: I love, and have always loved, Cyndi Lauper!

I just visited a friend in the hospital, who's on her way home in a day or two to continue teaching piano. She's going to be 100 in May. She could talk passionately about music, including rock, more knowledgeably than I ever could or will. What if she listened to all the pressures to give up simply due to chronological time? Age, with the exception of the ability to have children, seems to me to be just a construct that serves others so they can simplify their small worlds. They can have the small, give me the whole, big, beautiful, cosmos please! Which includes appreciating a glorious man however many years he or I have been here.

well, the age thing is my cross, my bugaboo and my hangup. that says way more about me than it does about Dave or anyone else here.

eilonwy, great blog.... really good. succinct and helpful. i have been a reviewer at Amazon for a long time, books and music, and what you say is spot on. and yes, to be considered legit/objective, it IS helpful to point out weakenesses/shortcomings/room for improvement. if ya really think Dave is Orpheus incarnate and can't resist saying so, with a lot of exclamation marks and discussions of his, uh, nonmusical attributes? Then don't try to pimp him in places where that attitude is only gonna attract derision.

Goethe's three questions for artistic criticism are excellent ones that I've always relied on: what was the artist trying to do, how well did the artist achieve that, and was it worth doing? This is the framework for a legitimate review.

I actually had a review of AH up at amazon for a heartbeat, which i wrote the day after I downloaded it, which i think was about 2 days before they pulled it. So now you can't see my review -- but it was much as you recommended, discussing the general vibe of the work, the impressive craftsmanship and original POV, the convincing performances, but also a few comments about what at the time I perceived as shortcomings -- notably some poetry that I thought overshot the mark, a bit. (so shoot me. i'd only listened for a day, but i was excited, though the review was caaaalllllmmmmm. i still think it's not perfect work. neither is mine. but dang. it is SUCH excellent work, for all that. his, not mine.)

D is not perfect, as a performer or writer or human being. To saddle him with such a concept does him no favors in any of those areas.

--
I laugh at myself while the tears roll down....

Ach - this age thing again. And I was thinking about it as I drove home today laughing at how I have now played that cd every single day of this year multiple times driving back and forth to work such that the last 2 songs KOTN and TOML must've been worn through by the laser and are skipping hopelessly.

And I concluded, Damn it all I am not gonna stop myself from attending his concerts and jumping up and down and rocking out and having a damned good time just because I am now probably past what is considered "cougar" (ugh) demographic. AAMOF, next summer will ,cough, cough, be the summer approaching the birthday that will be the last of this decade for me, and I will still wear cool jeans and boots and I will still be playing my guitar and I will still be the essential me (maybe more so) so, too bad for anyone who can't hack it, but I will be there. If Bruce can still be doing his thing, if Bonnie Raitt can still, etc, then I will be there.

And,cim, your post was so spot on about so much. Yeah - David's producers and execs etc all didn't get who we are out here and what we have been listening to for , oh, 40+ years ( I see that you are considerably younger than I am, but that makes no diff in how our feelings are the same). They underestimated and were afraid. If they had understood that we were all singing along to AH at loud volumes, then they would've made different choices. Like you, I had been watching AI from the first, but never voted and, while I did for a while find interest in how Clay was doing, no one grabbed me. Oh, I am glad that New Jerseyan Constantin Maroulis ( from around here) is doing great on Broadway, and I had wished that Daughtry had gone all the way on AI and liked that he succeeded ( and the same for Bo), and of course Fantasia in The Color Purple and Jennifer Hudson's spectacular success was wonderful, but that was all just like distant relatives who you liked and wished well for but they could slip your mind.

Each time David's cd starts anew, and I hear that voice, it feels like coming home. And there is no way on Earth that I will ever give that up or not try to stand near the stage or repress my girlish excitement when he strides on stage no matter how old I get. Matter of fact, I often do my age calculations and just hope hope hope that when he reaches 40 and is huge that I will still be fit enough to get to his shows. Because I want to experience all that glory, just the way, 40 years later now, I still went nuts over Paul at Citifield and will forever.

So, there's my rant for you all,and man, did that feel good! Smiles and hugs.

yeah, cim, when you arrive at this age and are assumed to like an artist of the opposite gender for only one reason? since you are obviously too stupid and too old to actually appreciate rock music?

it is not so fun.

hey, i'd knock 20 years off my age for the Davester, if I could. (who am I kidding, i'd knock 'em off for MYSELF and my kids. and then my spouse would have a trophy wife, lol. but i want the life experience I have; i don't wanna give that up and have to live it all over again, so.. there's that.) I waver from thinking my peers and I are a liability to DC and then hitting myself upside the head at the stupidity of that notion. Because the obvested crew is emphatically not all females "of a certain age"... and some of the reportedly OTT behavior (shoving and whatnot) has been perpetrated by folks who are way, way younger than me. So, there's that. (Not that I am happy that anybody does any of it, regardless of age.)

We came with the territory, I guess. (Though, for the millionth time, I don't watch AI. Did not watch prior seasons, did not watch season 8. encountering D there was a channel-flipping fluke.) We were part of the solution to D's obscurity problem, and now... well, sometimes we're still some sort of commercial solution, and sometimes maybe we're a problem, too, some of us. I'm not happy about bad behavior. I keep hoping it'll improve. I don't know what would bring that about.

--
I laugh at myself while the tears roll down....

Goodness GRACIOUS. I'm offline for 3 days and this thread has filled up 2 whole pages in the meantime? WTH has happened?!

OK, OK, finally caught up, so forgive me if you've all moved on from all the topics I'm about to comment on, but I'm in an I-can't-keep-my-metaphorical-mouth-shut mood, if you will.

With regards to any purported mismanagement, do I think it exists? Probably, yes. I'm also in the disappointed camp of people who wish there was another single. But do I think it's been pervasive? No. There's been too much good out there with regards to D's image and publicity for me to believe that. So minstrel, if you believe yourself to be fuzzy-minded with regards to any angsting or negativity, we'll at least be fuzzy-minded together. When it comes to D, I really do share your and Scott's optimistic sentiments, and having read CJT pretty thoroughly over the last year or so, I feel that the information they provide supports my outlook, too.

As for DC's audience demographics, I did comment on this very article not too long ago in the music thread. With regards to the marketing aspects of what I said, I think that the label was likely used to dealing with the same types of audiences as had followed previous Idol winners, and by and large, these winners won because of their vocal and performance skills. David broke that mold simply by showing his musicianship and arrangement skills; and it is these things that are appreciated by a more musically-educated audience. So do I think that Cavallo and/or the label underestimated a good number of the fans that David had (and continues to have -- since I think many of the AI fans have moved on at this point)? Absolutely. But they had never dealt with an educated audience before -- and that's what a lot of us were, at that point. We knew what we were hearing, and it wasn't just a voice, much as that was a big part of it. I've been watching AI since season 2, primarily because I'm (at this point I imagine this is not a surprise to any of you all) a music geek, and I enjoy watching the performances and hearing the singing and seeing if I can spot the eventual winner. David was the only contestant I had ever wanted to vote for in all those years, and that was because I knew what I was seeing was a cut above everyone else he had followed. (And to think that in 10 years, I will technically fall into that C-word category, and potentially have my investment suspect and my musical knowledge completely discounted is something I find disgustingly nauseating and insulting. And that's all I will say on the subject.)

Regarding the college tour, I agree it was in no way foisted upon him. If anything, I truly think there was a synergy of thought between D and the label in putting it together. It sounds like something D probably did come up with himself, but I suspect that not only did the label jump at the idea, but also bless their marketing deities that they lucked out in signing an artist with such an incredible marketing sense. This is, of course, entirely speculation on my part, but it does work with my understanding both of D's persona and label politics.

Finally, as for the reasons for my investment? Mujerfeliz, you really did say it best:
I can say, I came here for the music, but I stayed because of the man.
I was intrigued and became interested enough because of the music. I became a lurker because he was funny, and he made me think, and he demonstrated a level of integrity I find rare in RL, let alone among celebrities. And at some point, I stopped lurking, and started participating in this community, and I began realizing that the music was just going to get better, and he was probably going to keep making me laugh and think and be impressed. And, well, here I am.