The PROVERBIAL BOX: Celebrity, Fans, Marketing and Rock

The PROVERBIAL BOX: Celebrity, Fans, Marketing and Rock

This ongoing thread, spun off of discussions at the Proverbial Box forum (which in turn was spun off from the epic AI Forums thread regarding how DC was so outside the box), is a permanent home for armchair sociology regarding the fan/performer relationship, as well as the marketing of the David Cook brand.

We examine the basic assumptions regarding what a performer “owes” his fans, and why so many people have become so invested in the phenomenon that is DC. What is it about our media, our culture, our communication tools – and DC’s use of the communication tools – that makes people feel so personally connected? (And, at times, so personally demanding?) Is this a new scenario? Or has it been going on for decades, and just on display now in a more immediate way due to the existence of the “interwebs?” Do we demand more now than our fan predecessors did of the Beatles, Elvis, Sinatra?

What is the nature of our “relationship” with DC… what assumptions is it built on? (Again, viewed in a “meta” sort of a way – cos there are other threads for discussing his talent and personal attributes. We just take his appeal as a given.)

We consider all aspects of DC's ongoing communication with his fans, the way he is marketed (and markets himself), and related topics, including the brand status of DC in the world of rock music.

No professional opinions or credentials needed. Just your ideas and your gut feelings about why it is like it is, in the world of the developing rockstar, the obvested fan, and the crazy digital universe.....
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Comments (6144)

Putting this great recap/blog here because of the current discussion ~ David was asked what he thinks about the singing along etc... during Lie and FITM

@iNaughtiest

[blog] DAVID COOK MURDERS ME!!! Tulsa OK 2013.09.22 @thedavidcook @CainsBallroom #DCtour http://blog.naughtiest.us/4818 pic.twitter.com/6eDfyTLSfI

I'm afraid that my comments about some audience behavior I found annoying at Cains had me coming off as a party pooper. I guess I don't like drunken behavior that is disrespectful of everyone around. There is a difference between being high and exuberant vs being sloppy drunk and oblivious. I'm referring to the latter. (There was one couple, at one point the guy grabbed his gal's buttock so hard, she was wincing. She shoved him off with a long angry glare. He grabbed her hair, pulling her head down to her shoulder and held it there too long for (my) comfort. I was alarmed at his behavior, and wondered whether I should get help for her. .... Then she sent him out to get booze..He seemed happy to be the go-fer. A very tall weaving go-fer, always returning to a slightly different spot with all of us behind finding new ways to see around him. They both seemed happy enough at that point. Joke was on me I suppose. )

The noise from the back I was talking about was not coming from the area where David's family was gathered......though I bet if his family would have been grateful to know how far their voices were traveling.

well, it was in tune, for one thing, which is not all that common with audiences, ha.

but it was also hushed and intense, like church, somehow, kwim? and not necc that D was the object of worship (though in some cases I think that's true) but more like "this is what it sounds like when a bunch of humans are all on the same, mutually affectionate, in-the-moment wavelength."

rare enough to be remarkable. and probably the memory of such things is what keeps a lot of musicians slogging through a lot of other, less rewarding stuff.

fwiw.

I can't get enough of this: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gvCp-IXuALg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DgvCp...

That's fan-artist connection right there. So pretty Smiling

I'm with you, Polarbrrr, because those incarnations are very important. That's how we know which tour a pic is from. Each of his 3 tours has had it's own distinctive hair style, as did his Asia mini-tour, and many one-offs as well, like Morongo, Busch Gardens, Pet-a-palooza, Irish Summerfest, Orlando Food & Wine Fest. (I bet many of you could picture each of those styles as you read the show names.) Impressive, isn't it, the number of different things that man can do with those hairs? Brilliant. It makes his tours so memorable. (Though I guess that can be said for his music and voice, too.) Eye-wink

All I really go to see is the latest hair incarnation. Eye-wink

Adding my opinions to this thread about audience at the shows. First of all, I have not been to any David Cook shows so I don't know what to expect other than what I see on youtube and streams. But, next weekend I will be at 3 of them. I am going to see my favorite artist, to let loose and have a great time. I am disappointed at some of the vibe at the shows I've seen. I want to stand up, dance, shout whooooooooo, clap my hands, and scream!! Basically I want to show David how much he and his music means to me!!!! I don't want people to yell at me because I want to stand and dance! I am at concert for goodness sake, not a funeral.

I think as a performer I would be so encouraged by the reaction of the audience. If they are into it, then I the performer feed off that which makes for a better show. If the audience is so-so, then maybe I'll just go through the motions. So in my opinion, it's a relationship that feeds off each other, the better the audience, the better the performance, the better the performance, the better the audience.

That being said, there is also a line of respect not only for David, but for the other fans attending. There is a time for quiet and listening and a time for turning it on!! I feel if people are going to be annoyed by every little thing a fan does, then maybe they are better off to listen to David in a private setting like at home, with their earphones on with no distraction or disturbance. I personally thrive off an excited performer and excited crowd!!!!

So don't hate me next weekend because I am going to meet David and see his shows for the first time and I intend to have fun, but I will definitely respect the man. I want to see him tour for many years to come!!! So if you go to a show definitely show him the LOVE and have fun!

Also at Cain's what many could not see but I could were the two male friends of David's who were stage left during FITM waving their arms and acting goofy which caused David to gigglesnort ~ everyone at that show had great respect and love for David that night and not every show is the same and I am glad. This show was top tier for me and we all sang along and showed great admiration and love for the man Smiling Trying to make all people "behave a certain way" is an unreal expectation jmo Smiling

Also, this is probably another reason why recording a show is probably not a great idea because it is really a little annoying to me for people to start judging an audience based on background noise. Again jmo and at least these people showed up and paid to see the show! Smiling Don't get me wrong I LOVE the videos but really I get a little upset when everyone starts picking on the audience! It is suppose to be fun. I also think him being "cute or not cute" has anything to do with the background noise! ~ Again JMO Smiling

LOL, CYE! I'd gotten a sense of the Cain's audience while standing in line, and didn't expect reverent attention to the acoustic songs. They were there to have a good ol' time, and they certainly seemed to. The newspaper review of the 2011 Midland show in Kansas City described the vibe as "backyard barbecue", and I said myself that many attending that one were connected in some way to David; family, friends, friends of family, family of friends. Lots of talking there, too. Tulsa is also a "hometown" for him, so the background chatter didn't surprise me. My dinner consisted of beer as well, which may have put me in a forgiving mood, and I had a great time. The Dosey Doe experience sounds like it was close to ideal; other shows probably suffered by comparison.

I'm still enjoying their coffee here. So nice that they gave me a bag to brew at home. Good stuff. Smiling

Not too shabby for a coffee place. I've been telling people how nice this venue was. I'm definitely keeping an eye on their calendar.

I have to admit, I didn't look for desserts, but checking the online menu I'd say no. I had the Fried Green Tomatoes with Asparagus (dipping sauce was divine) with the Cashew Chicken Salad Sandwich. http://www.doseydoescoffeeshop.com/pdf/bigdoedinner.pdf

Wavelength, was the cheesecake he raved about on the menu?

I had the dinner at the Dosey Doe - it was delicious and my waiter was entertaining. The entire experience (concert included) was memorable. Laughing out loud

Follia, ah so it was David that made me go hungry at Dosey Doe! LOL. The kitchen was closed by the time we got there. No complaints here, it was a good call as I'd been worried that dinner service would be distracting in such a small venue. Besides, beer for dinner wasn't too bad Eye-wink
CYE, that's too funny!

LOL I was glaring at the people talking behind me during the 2 acoustic songs at Cain's. I almost went to them to tell them to show a little respect. Turns out it was David's family, catching up with band members and old friends. Eye-wink

NEMO: Ditto to your comment about Fan Talk. At Cains I was standing toward the back of the crowd gathered around the stage. It was about twelve deep. People came and went to the bar, or should I say staggered to and from the bar. And lots of the people sitting around tables towards in the back near the bar were talking throughout. It reminded me of the bg noise I've heard at some of the charity banquets.

I was told by the great folks at the Dosey Doe that David had specifically stated that he wanted the dinner service to be, dishes cleared, before the show started. Drinks were served all evening. I loved that Dosey Doe crowd. There was a real connection in that space between the audience and the band. Great energy and great acoustics. For the acoustic numbers you could hear a pin drop. Respect.

This is a toughy. Like most of you, I *SO* appreciate the vids & pics. I don't make it to many live shows and the media shared by fans makes me feel more connected to David AND his fandom than I would otherwise.

I personally don't know how anyone in the front row or 2 can hold a camera between themselves and David/the band -- I was there once, and I couldn't do it even for a short series of still pics. I couldn't stand to break the connection AND it just seemed so rude - so disrepectful of his efforts to connect! Kinda like holding up a camera in the middle of a conversation with friend. Since we know that the sound is rarely as good on vids (or cellcasts) from right in front, it's interesting that people still attempt this en masse. Those are the folks the band can really see when the house lights are out.

I don't think we can ever manage designated videographers/recorders - stuff happens, people forget to charge devices, etc. Perhaps we can agree to try to be more respectful of him - improve the experience for him and the band by decreasing the cameras in the first few rows - although attempts to do so will just bring out the defiant "I'll enjoy this however I want to" peeps who will resent ANY fan behavior advice.
Conundrum is right. Thanks AGAIN to everyone recording and sharing vids, banter, recordings, pics - at least he knows we love him.

ETA: a related topic: on unedited MP3 recordings fans have shared and which I LOVE because I enjoy hearing the whole concert - banter, applause, etc -- I've been shocked at the fan chatter - people who are clearly fans, but who talk through the whole performance as if they were home in their living room. When David is singing acoustic Lie or FIM, how on earth do people TALK! ACH! Perhaps that's a fan who has been to one too many concerts. Not only does it have to be disturbing to fans in the vicinity (who are wanting to say SHUT UP!) but also, what message does that send to newbies and potential fans? This guy is cute but I don't really listen to him when he's singing his heart out. Geesh!

Just a different perspective on the perceived link between extended videographing and artist/fan connection and engagement. The show at Dosey Doe in The Woodlands was one of the most videod shows of Dave I've seen recently (95 videos and counting). Yet David himself said that this was one of the rowdiest crowds he'd ever seen, and called it the coolest show he and the band had done in the last 5 years.

So the link is not as clearcut as most of us seem to think.

Having said that, I'm all for a few designated videographers/photographers. We already know who is good at this - maybe we should come up w some kind of system eg X is designated song-capturer on NE coast, Y is banter-capturer and we have one back-up* for each.

* Is my FOMO showing? Eye-wink

Checking in as a non-photo/video taker. Sorry y'all.
I usually take a couple of photos as a little memento then kick back and enjoy the show, both on-stage and all around the room.

Also add David's past tour mate Gavin DeGraw to the list of artists commenting on the sea if phones. Here's a line from his latest single: "I'm looking at the crowd and they're staring at their phones"

I still appreciate having the videos though.

I'm not a good photographer, so I am glad to know I'm not a bad fan for not wanting to take pictures or movies and instead to just enjoy the moment.

On the other hand, I look forward to the videos and pictures that others share, especially since I don't get a chance to attend shows. Makes me feel connected, at least a little, with what happens at the shows, and of course this time, the opportunity to hear the new songs.

Alamodame_Tess : Let me add that when I am right up front, especially in a small venue, I feel so rude if I am clicking away in the artist's face, too. So I try to wait until the song ends. Now, that's just me.

Opa - I,too, am so grateful to those who do take great vids and sound. So I am not putting down anybody who has mastered videoing and enjoying at the same time. There have been wonderful vids during the first leg of this tour, and I so love the new songs, so am very appreciative of our videographers.

Ah, what a conundrum. Even at the shows I've attended (3 at last count) I sincerely wished someone had gotten closeup expressions, and a good quality audio. I'm not adept at recording, so leave it to others. At the NOH in DC 2012, I tweeted about a "bubbling cauldron of love" observed from the balcony. It also reminded me of the phosphorescence of a boat wake in a tropical sea; the floor was awash in greeny-blue points of light. It made me curious, sad, and reassured all at once. The magical moment of sharing David's baring his heart to an audience of the faithful battled with the intrusion of the technology parasite. I felt this way at the Tulsa concert a couple of weeks ago. Lots of glowing screens, but they would broadcast that honkey tonk magic to fans over the globe. The artist can object, and I wholeheartedly endorse their right to. But I'm addicted to videos of David's shows, and for my part, they make me thirst for a live concert that much more.

Jayelgee1: "So, I try these days to resist my fear of not having vids and pix. I find I am happier with my full attention on the artist and what he or she is sending out to me."

YES!!! I feel much the same about the filming during a concert.
At the Austin show, I agreed to help with the cell cast. Even my holding up my phone shoulder high to catch the sound intruded on my enjoyment. I wanted to clap, wave both arms up high (looked silly when I did that with one arm, lol), cup my mouth and yell "WOO HOO!" Somehow, my dancing isn't as good with one hand not participating. I don't think I will do a cell cast again or worry about taking video. Others have much better cameras than I, and I want to see Dave and the boys perform with my unhampered eyes, not through a lens.

Add "fear of not having video and pix" to "fear of missing out"! Being that I am not all that good at uploading my vids and that I still want to lay my eyeballs on whoever I am there to see and hear, I tend to not make many vids at all.

The very first time I saw David perform, at the David Wright Gala show at the NYC Hard Rock, back in the relative stone age of 2008, my husband videoed pretty much the whole show, though with lots of sea-sickening instability. I got it made into a dvd, uploaded that eventually into my iMovie and have never been able to figure out how to edit the whole thing for youtube.

These days, I can use my Galaxy 4 and did for McCartney, but my best vids can be made with my Canon camera. However, getting those uploaded etc etc is a real effort.

So I'm toying around with the idea of getting an internet ready camera.

Key word there is "toying," because I know that even when I stop to take pix, when I look back up with my eyeballs, I feel I have lost a good deal of the pleasure of the immediate moment of the performance. I want the screen of my brain and memory to have recorded my experience. As nice as "having rock stars in my camera" is - and, boy, you'd think David was a member of my family, all the photos I have of him in my iPhoto collection - I like more having them in my brain.

It must be very odd, indeed, for the artist to look out into the audience and see little glowing screens and now obnoxious tablets recording in front of fans' faces.

So, I try these days to resist my fear of not having vids and pix. I find I am happier with my full attention on the artist and what he or she is sending out to me.

An ipad? Really, as bad as phones and cameras are, the tablets should definitely be banned. That’s like having someone hold a sign in front of you the entire time (except it has a moving picture on it). I had someone pull out an ipad to take a group shot of myself and some others and I can’t even imagine someone using it to take video of a concert.

It has to be extremely frustrating for the artist. The phone or camera does block the people’s faces and when an artist is wanting to judge facial reactions, it definitely makes it very difficult. But the flip side of that, like you said Minstrel, is that so many people crave these videos. They want to see the funny banter, they want to watch HIS facial expressions and now we live in a world where that can all be captured on video and immediately put on Youtube. It’s a problem. Here’s my wish:

I wish the venue could record the show. There would then be good quality sound and video as well. They could then make a DVD to sell. They could make it so it couldn’t be copied so that one person wouldn’t just buy it and share it with everyone else on Youtube. Each person would have to buy his own. I think there would be a significant interest in purchasing these. I realize I’m daydreaming but a true workable solution would be such an awesome thing for everyone involved.

yeah, the iPad. that was a new twist, but I saw four or five of them scattered in front of me at Switchfoot. maybe more behind me, i have no clue. As the tablets become ubiquitous I can't imagine this scenario improving until and unless the venues make some rules and send around ppl to enforce them. Seriously, the tablets make an iPhone look like a gnat. But also, because the image is larger to the person who is holding it and watching while shooting, the experience for them is, I imagine, not all that different from watching an arena show on a video screen. I mean, smaller image, but more like watching at home on a flatscreen instead of watching on your phone.

And that's bad, because ... the less unpleasant it is for the person taking the video, the greater the likelihood of ppl wanting to use such things habitually and for long portions of a show. kwim?

but I don't have an answer, like I said. because so many ppl love the vids, and for an artist like dave who doesn't tour that much, and not at all in some areas, ever, so far, the vids are the only representation of the live work that some people get. They love to pore over the vids, consider differences, curate collections, chat about their favorites; it's a key aspect of their fandom. I can't get all lofty here and say that is wrong. There's a whole culture that's evolved around the sharing. Bootlegs have always been shared; these just have images along with the sound. And there are some marketing aspects to that that are beneficial to Dave, no doubt, as well.

And yet, there is a big piece of my heart that is right there with him, when he says "can't we just designate one?" Because when Dave is out on the road, he is all about wanting to be connected. He has been that way from the start; it's not a new thing. Despite the fact that ppl have complained that he's sometimes singing when he's way up in his own head (and that does happen, the eyes closed and the artist seemingly far away) -- despite all that? His periodic comments about this issue seem to affirm that it bugs him, some, to have to perform to all the devices and not be able to see facial reactions. (And physical reactions, too, cos if you're shooting you are not booty-shaking, ha. As he was complaining in that banter.)

From me this posting is less a whine than a reflection -- some fruitless seeking for a perfect world where one person with excellent equipment would shoot and nobody else would. A world where all sight lines would be clear and no tall people would drift over into your line of vision, or shift back and forth so YOU have to shift back and forth for the whole show, or try to smuggle their buddies in front of you, or be unpleasantly drunk/stoned/heckling, or eh, whatever it is, lol. I want it to be all kumbaya and rawk and magic rainbows and laughter, to be all about the love and can't we all just get along and colors bleeding into one, and a daily anthem of whoa whoa woah woah.

That's what I want. Rock and communion, apparently. How to make that dovetail with the digital thing, I have no idea. Never mind me. I'm supposed to be doing the laundry. It's my weekly Sunday procrastination. But momma gots to go sort those clothes. later, gators.

I don't come comment often, but I do look from time to time. Minstrel's last post made me want to comment so bear with me.

The idea of having a designated photo taker and videographer has always been something I have thought about. My husband and I know an artist who said the other day how much he hates attending concerts himself where all you see is a sea of phones, etc. The people on stage have to perform to that and I can well understand the frustration on their part to have to make an attempt to have an interaction with people with those little devices in the way. And what is the result of all those people filming and snapping, anyway? Usually, just a bunch of crappy videos floating around youtube. Usually you end up with a lot of lousy audio and videos that usually focus on just one person in the band. To me, many times it is not a good representation of the quality of an artist's work.

The idea of assigning the task of recording an event to one person with a good quality camera sounds awesome to me. Really, this person shouldn't be in the front row in order to record the entire experience. Standing back far enough to get the entire band on stage not only allows those who did not attend to see the entire show, but the sound is usually much, much better as well.

Personally, I want to experience the event at that moment live and not view it from a tiny screen. Luckily for me, my husband loves to film, has an awesome camera and can get video for others to enjoy later. He stands whereever he thinks he can get the best shot when at all possible and I stand where I want. He usually gets some great footage that way, although his camera actually does a great job right at the stage if need be as well. What he does do after that, though, is have the artist view what he has recorded first and let him know what he/she actually wants to have on youtube. We do this out of respect for the artist and realize it is not the norm. My husband films for several bands on a regular basis and they seem to appreciate his efforts to record their work.

So, thanks for the opportunity to voice my opinion on the subject. I'm glad it frustrates Mr. Cook to have so many phones, etc in his face. I hope his voicing his opinion will change the situation. I would love for him to get what he wants while the viewing audience gets what they want. To me, it certainly would be a win/win. With so many fans knowing one another, I don't think it would be impossible for people to elect someone at each show with the job to film and someone to take photos, That way the audience gets to experience the show without the distraction of trying to work their devices and the artist to get to actually see his audience.

minstrel::::::::::::::: OMG an ipad... what a nightmare.i had not thought of that possibility. i know how it sucks to stand on line A LOT of hours/ be five foot two and then have nothing but electronics in front of you. maybe next time i will bring-fold up stool.

aw, angelbabe. you were here. missed it. good to see you.

video re 'rump shaking' but also the sea of devices between the audience and the Cook:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XhkyZvQLb8&feature=youtu.be

"can't we have one designated photo-taker?" he asks.

It has to be hard to be trying to get to people, and gauge how you're connecting, with devices obscuring their faces. We have discussed this here before. Honestly, I wish the "designated photo taker" thing could somehow happen. for his sake and for the sake of all the audience members who are actually trying to see through this sea of raised devices.

Was at a Switchfoot show last week and honest to God... the man in front of me was taking video with his IPAD, people. The sucker was huge and it was not only obscuring his view but also obscuring mine. he was not the only one with a big device like this raised high.

I don't know the answer. I don't think there IS one. I only know that you cannot experience the experience properly when there are electronics mediating between you and the artist. And Dave is right to point that out. It is not the first time he's expressed his frustration with that situation. yet people want the vids. Even though IMO there are a relatively small number of uber fans who have the proper equipment, front-of-house access, and steady hands to pull off a really excellent-quality result.

fwiw.

Marketing. Yes. Okay, This is different - and a nice angle for promotion and marketing -

>>Crowd Album ‏@CrowdAlbum 14h
See great @thedavidcook @CarolineGlaser photos @CainsBallroom thanks to @Kristen8108 @jerrywofford @GraceC4David http://alpha.crowdalbum.com/gallery/...laser_20130922

This looks like something recent on Twitter - @CrowdAlbum. Anyone familiar? They cover a lot of bands - and they have 62 pictures from Cain's with captions, and nicely formatted pages.

>>https://twitter.com/CrowdAlbum

~~~

But this is a very interesting synergy; marketing and promo from BNAudio - and it's been going on for a while, since the account asked fans for pictures of Devin and David on the This Loud Tour a while back. The page promotes all the artists that use their audio system, and even though Devin is not going out with David and the guys this time, follow the BNAudio Twitter, and you will see a constant stream of promo for this recent #DCTour, Devin even tweeted about DC from his Brazil gig, as a co-owner of BNAudio. It's topped off by this @thedavidcook #PlayItLoudDC contest, to try to win a Black Box Audio System..

As I said, as a combination of marketing and promo - this looks very synergistic, and I hope, very effective.

JMO.

Hey, Angelbabe - we are in an active phase of the moon right now - or something. *snerk*

Good to see you! Ck out the new music? Five tracks and a cover to dissect - and some interesting Q&A answers from Houston - along with an unexpected cross-marketing wrinkle or two . Plenty of fodder for conversation, IMO.

Angelbabe, if my brief review of the new concert thread is any indication: Everything! But I'm waiting for really high-quality sound files before I discuss further.

Hi peeps!
What's shaking?
Dude! photo sup.gif

Interesting stuff, GBTAT - I'm soliciting opinions on what has been happening in the Marketplace. This is what I'm reading: "There is a retro throwback vibe to 70s, 80s, disco, old school R&B making a coming back with a modern sound." Can't say I've been paying any detailed attention - but I'm glad some folks are.

Earlier this yr I was in a conversation about clueless Label A&R dudes missing the trend with Lee in 2010, when the vibe for Americana began - they had a guy who sang in that genre, and they Biced him. Now I'm curious to see where this trend goes...and fickle Pop will soon make that clear, I think.

I've just been waiting out the Mumford sound and the EDM, etc - as the wheel turns towards music I like much better - and it always does, eventually. I hesitate to label for fear of a "True Scotsman" Moment - *snerk* - but following the KISS Principle - it's not the size of the amp, it's all the sounds of the song... I'm just waiting for a sound I like to hear.

karenc3 I think the rock is back is coming more from bands like Imagine Dragons, Muse, and Fall Out Boy doing well on the radio

Well, that wasn't what Incipit was referencing. And I agree that ID, in particular, is doing very well, but *all* those recent big singles have been noted for their debt to dubstep/drum&bass/EDM (and then there's It's Time, which managed to do both that *and* a mandolin line as a nod to the Americana fans). The guitars are decidedly mixed down. It doesn't sound like 70s arena rock (Muse has done in the past a bit, but that isn't the sound the recent singles are referencing now).

For the record, I think rock and pop are both big tents and I'm good with all of it being there.

Incipit Of course Folk Music counts - as Folk Music; with acoustics and banjo's and ukes and even dobros, whatever instrumentations people want to experiment with for that whole Americana/Mumfordian genre

The thing is that those bands use that instrumentation *and* plug it in. Once people get to the point of debating how big the amplifier needs to be in order to count as rock music, it's just picking over crumbs. Dylan squared that circle a long, long time ago, IMO.

As for the songs themselves, any half-aware critic using the term "song of the summer" is talking about Blurred Lines, Get Lucky, or both. Clearly there *is* a resurgence of that particular funk sound. Which, again, I'm fine with. And I suspect that the rock sounds that get play on the radio will have some hybridization with that, the aforementioned EDM stuff, or both.

GBTAT, I 'think' rock resurgence is a mite bit previous - "precursor" was as far as I was willing to go. If I'm wrong, that's good too. Heh.

Of course Folk Music counts - as Folk Music; with acoustics and banjo's and ukes and even dobros, whatever instrumentations people want to experiment with for that whole Americana/Mumfordian genre. But it doesn't have to be admitted to the Hallowed Gates of Terrestrial radio. It's already there, in that specific form.

70's funk/disco guitars counts, as 70's funk/disco. No idea what the songs are by title - if that's the referenced "70's inflected guitars" from this summer?

I'm just looking ahead, considering a plugged in guitar with a pedal board - and a bass and a drum kit - and whatever other instrumentation works for the music. A Marshall stack is also good, maybe a keyboard, that's OK too.

It would be good if the cyclical music fads are coming back to anything close to that - and if Terrestrial Radio PD's are perhaps considering playing it in the future, even better. IMO.

goodbyetoallthat:

I think the rock is back is coming more from bands like Imagine Dragons, Muse, and Fall Out Boy doing well on the radio.

Those songs of the summer are all about *70s funk/disco* guitars, IMO. Which I think is perfectly fine, or at the very least amusing as I watch the suits and countersuits pile up over whether or not Robin Thicke ripped off Marvin Gaye (Should Michael Jackson's estate want a word with Daft Punk or Bruno Mars, that wouldn't surprise me either). But if one takes the (blinkered, IMO) view that folk-rock doesn't count, then one isn't likely to consider those songs a rock resurgence, either.

Incipit9:

That's interesting. I really think that the interest in rock never really left. I think that people who did like rock just stopped being interested in pop. I even think this relates back to Idol, in that who had won there had been so many winners the past 5 years that were rock or folk rock. I'm glad it's beginning to come back into the mainstream. I can actually listen to the radio again...

"...marketing and Rock."

OK - I have no idea where else this would go - the trend on Corporate Terrestrial Radio away from Rock music and toward the Americana/Mumfordies - a nice contradiction in terms, if not in sources, is well known, I believe.

Today, in the middle of a boring afternoon with no new DC dates - noise from a feud surfaced on the internet - between Perry/Gaga and a side order of plankton in the form of PH. Not important...but. Spin Magazine - who wanted to be "oh-so-snidely" at Gaga, printed a sentence in their article that gave some color to the day - - >

The things one can find in unexpected places that give hope; someday the Terrestrial Radio
musical world could spin in the preferred direction again! Hah!

"insistent, relatively generic electro-pop pulse is a bit behind the times at a pop moment where the biggest song-of-the-summer candidates have moved back toward '70s-inflected guitars."

I don't give a Ffn about how this Perry/Gaga competition turns out - neither one has music on my GaD list, and Radiohead already covered this subject in "High and Dry". (PH could just stay out of the Gene Pool?) The sound moving towards "70's inflected guitars" as a precursor, OTOH, has my full attention.

Love it. *wink*


as for pearl jam or bruce or whatever -- i think the perception is that their fans are more gender-diverse, regardless of the age skew. whereas the perception with dave's is that we're not. diverse. (i said 'perception,' btw. not necc 'actuality.')

I think that misconception has finally died down.
It seemed to start with the cougar posters seen during Idol. The press picked up an that and mentioned it in articles. Then anyone who saw themselves as a cougar got insulted that anyone would suggest not ALL his fans are cougars. Then when he was interviewed as a young new rocker and asked how he felt about his older AI fans, he would graciously say that as long as someone enjoys his music he is happy to have them as a fan. As with the cougar situation, somehow that lead to many of his older fans getting insulted anytime someone would suggest not ALL his fans are older than his age group.
Sadly, it is the younger fans who were then made to feel like outsiders in some of the online communities. There were frequent posts claiming his older fans are his core fans. Not surprisingly, the more it happened the less often the younger fans bothered posting or even lurking. As a result communities that should/could have been truly blind to age, ended up being anything but for a while. I think we are past that now.
In my real life, almost every fan of his that I know is younger than he is. That includes at least a dozen who have gone to see him in concert. The only exceptions would be people I gave his music to. Even then, if they had children in their 20's or younger, it's their children who were most likely to later talk to me about his music and sometimes ask if I could get them tickets to a concert.
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Friday, August 9, 2013 - 16:03
jayelgee1:
Indeed.
But what still makes me go "hmmm" is how radio people STILL have to remark on the loyalty David inspires in many fans and how those loyal fans feel he provides the soundtrack to their lives. (sorry, misplaced the link to today's radio interview. Will get it later.)

Honestly, I thought that interview was all positive. I listened again and you are right that the male DJ made a leading 'loony toon' comment. But the female DJ saved it and for a casual listener it sounded all good and positive IMO that she has neighbors that still listen to his music all the time.
I wonder if this is the positive effect of him being so far removed from Idol? Coming off Idol the media likes to focus on Idol and enthusiastic Idol fans. But years later if a contestant is still a serious artist working in the industry, then most DJs will treat them more seriously.
http://www.1029now.com/player/?mid=23564455

jayelgee1:

I totally agree with your post from yesterday. I think some of the misconception among the DJs is because he came from Idol, because I've heard them say similar things about others that came from the show also. I agree, no one questions fans being as devoted to other artists, even among adult fans. I think the difference is that many fans of artists like Bruce Springsteen and Pearl jam became fans when they were younger, and have stayed fans through the years. But I think that with newer artists like David, there are older fans simply because they like the kind of music he is doing. To me it seems like adults are much more actively buying music and going to concerts than they did the generations before.

I do think he knows and appreciates that there is a real connection with the fans, just because of what he said in interviews, how he is at meet and greets, and how he reacted when I told him how much I loved his music.

yeah, I dunno. I dunno what those djs are looking at, and I don't know what ppl are doing. I think the 'cray quotient' is way down from times past, but there are ppl who still, say, tweet him half a dozen times a day. not a lot of ppl, but some. maybe the djs are looking at that, who knows? or when ppl respond to the radio twitter accounts, or websites, with what they see as an unusual amount of tweets? (again, where is the line between 'appropriate support' and 'cray' in terms of digital activity? at this point, frankly, i just ... don't interact with any radio stations but local ones. D's not been out in public so they have to be responding to digital activity, which is the quickest way for them to get a read.)

as for pearl jam or bruce or whatever -- i think the perception is that their fans are more gender-diverse, regardless of the age skew. whereas the perception with dave's is that we're not. diverse. (i said 'perception,' btw. not necc 'actuality.')

but also, to be blunt -- those acts are big stars with a long track record who might be expected to inspire some musical passion level. whereas d's been off the radar, virtually, for a pretty long time, especially radio radar. it is thus easy for them to lump him into an "AI fizzle" category (as they probably put everybody who's not Kelly C or Carrie). The fact that he still has enthusiastic fans when they think he's a musical nonstarter, well .... you know, they tend to look for a nonmusical reason for that. We know better, but, yeah.

I just look at my still increasing RFH total and dave's still increasing RFH total and turn up LML and say, "screw the scoffers, bring the gasoline....."

Minstrel: Speaking for myself? I got way more than I've given, that's for sure.

Yes. Just keep making music, Dave. Smiling

Indeed.
But what still makes me go "hmmm" is how radio people STILL have to remark on the loyalty David inspires in many fans and how those loyal fans feel he provides the soundtrack to their lives. (sorry, misplaced the link to today's radio interview. Will get it later.)

What irks me is that no one questions Springsteen fans for that same intensity of devotion; no one questions Pearl Jam fans or hip hop fans etc etc etc.

I am quite tired of the underlying implication that David's "lady" fans are, as the dj said, "looney tunes." I am not that. And I think it serves to, perhaps, undermine just that feeling of support and connectedness he verblized in the Papadotos interview. Note the perhaps. We don't know what David's inner voice says to him when he hears that nonsense.

I hope that he, like us fans, is plain tired of it. In my view, for an artist to inspire people to such intense heights is something of continual wonderment in the best sense.

Minstrel:I got way more than I've given, that's for sure.

*nods quietly* *reaches for Kleenex*

just because it's apropos of the OP.... a quote from the Digital Journal | @MarkosPapadatos Interview with David Cook: 'Laying Me Low' http://bit.ly/1evFZWo

“My fans are awesome and I try to stay connected with them on Facebook and Twitter as much as I can. I really truly love being out on the road and connecting with them in-person,” he said. “I am continuously amazed at the support that I get from my fans this many years after Idol. I don’t think I am ever going to be able to repay them for that,” he added.

------------

I don't think he's über connected via social media any more. Not in that symbiotic way, like it was for a while. But enough. It's enough. We're all progressing, kwim? Certainly the novelty factor of Twitter wore off a long time ago. And I'm glad some folks will get some live music and actual face time soon.

As for who owes whom what, I'd only say that I think a lot of the folks who are still around feel like nobody owes anything, not in any sense of needing repaying.

Speaking for myself? I got way more than I've given, that's for sure.

fwiw.

Just an obervation. I've noticed that others from Idol are having trouble getting much radio play and have had drops in sales also on their second albums, despite likely fitting into current pop. And yes, I mean those from the season after David's, but I'm not really trying to bring up others music. It's just an overall observation that maybe there is something bigger, like a problem with the way those from a certain show or certain record company are marketed, since we are seeing drops with most of them. Other than being on the same show, it is the record company that they have in common.

Something that seems to be On Topic, and touches on every word in the title; Celebrity, Fans, Marketing, Rock.

A nice piece of MARKETING has come to my attention: a CELEBRITY, Yeng Constantinos, will be singing with David in Manila - just as the winner of Season 7 IndoIdol will be doing a duet with him in Jakarta. IDK anything about Cebu....or what they will be singing - although my money is on RiTD both times . so I hope David has plenty of time to warm up - he said that song needs it! I also don't know these two artists - but maybe one of the choices for a duet could be more ROCK?

Any way, what do the FANS think of this Duet Spot in concerts?

>>@thedavidcook RT @Cornerstone_TMC: Congratulations @YengPLUGGEDin for being chosen to have a duet with David Cook in his concert here in Manila this Saturday

>>@YengPLUGGEDin : I'm really happy I will sing with david cook on saturday... yey!!! #grateful

And to continue the Marketing topic -

>>@MyMusicStorePH
@thedavidcook's single The Last Song I'll Write For You is now available on MyMusicStore http://bit.ly/OxcuXb Spread the word!

Because the 'word' is the song is not available on the iTunes Philippines with the rest of David's music. Anyone know?? But this outlet, MyMusicStore, has many downloads of David's songs for sale - check out their 'Also Bought' scroll!

Better Marketing?

United States

?